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What will it take or what has to happen…

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by steel_ben7, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    You got a link for that?
     
  2. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    I can't give you a link to something that is my opinion.
     
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  3. theotherbigben

    theotherbigben Well-Known Member

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    Does Butler not have some responsibility in developing these first rounders? You don't think he's included in the conversation when they make these draft picks? Don't you think he makes the decision who's on the field on game day? Isn't he responsible for putting the players in position to be successful? Scheming to their strengths? Bottom line is it's Butler's responsibility to get the most out of these guys. They've made the investment in the defense. The defense stinks. I'm blaming him first.
     
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  4. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    the head coach is in charge. No football team on the planet just blames the coordinators for the losses except half the Steeler’s fans apparently.

    Sure if one unit is a problem and the rest of the team looks great… then maybe you have a point. Maybe if we are winning with a bad offense or bad defense then maybe you have a point. How many SB rings does Bellicheat have with bad defenses ?

    Given our HC is also heavily involved in our defense (and according to recent reports , the actual DC) I think its fair to hold the HC responsible. Not to mention the offense sucks also! Lol

    When exactly was the last time we had a good special teams , good offense, and good defense? I recall our defense being awesome not long ago. Some how this same worthless coach developed the best defensive Player in the game . That guy Cam doesn’t look to bad either. Funny how haden and minkah blossomed . It’s completely possible Bush is a bust. Butler has a long history of developing great players.

    our draft picks have always been a cumulative effort by the front office, scouts, and coaches. MT makes the final call . This is well known.
     
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  5. dobbler-33

    dobbler-33 Well-Known Member

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    Don’t trip speedy mike Wallace already has it figured out. We need a name change.
     
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  6. Clive From PIT

    Clive From PIT Site Admin

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    LINK
     
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  7. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    Lol
     
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  8. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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  9. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if he can get the 12 more TD's.
     
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  10. SteelReal

    SteelReal Well-Known Member

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    You're all over the place and half the stuff you're saying doesnt even make since. What's the relevance of asking the question "how many rings has Bellicheat won with bad defenses??" When has a team ever won a Championship with a bad defense?? Name one. So what's your point??

    Last I checked Haden and Minkah were pretty solid players before they arrived in Pittburgh or else why trade a first rd pick for Minkah and pay Haden the money he was looking for in free agency??

    If you're asking when was the last time the team was good in all three phases it was 2017....that wasnt too long ago. A better offensive coordinator last year and it would have been the case a year ago. You also have to consider who's at QB and that he's well past his prime. Theres not too many teams in the league that have all three phases going from year to year because it's almost impossible with free agency. Typically when it comes to offenses/defenses one is up while the other is down. Go check most teams and you'll see this is the case since free agency became a thing.

    Factually, if there's one area where the Steelers have fallen glaringly short it's in free agency pick ups...whether it's the beginning of season or trade deadline.The Tampa Bucs literally paid for a Championship through free agency last year. The Steelers havent done enough imo, or the players they've picked up havent been game changers or had the impact they hoped. They've all kinda been just another guy, if that. They've lost way more then they've gained as far as I'm concerned and its usually guys they've drafted. So what does that tell you?

    I went ahead and posted the Offensive and Defensive rankings under Tomlin since he's been coach. Now u tell me where the problem is since you know so much??? More proof you're just another person that talks out of his azz and thinks he sounds good doing it:

    Team Offense Rank over the years...source PRO FOOTBALL REFERENCE

    2020 #12
    2019 #31
    2018 #8
    2017 #8
    2016 #11
    2015 #5
    2014 #7
    2013 #17
    2012 #22
    2011 #22
    2010 #12
    2009 #12
    2008 #20
    2007 #9

    Team Defense - Pro Football Reference

    2007 - #2
    2008 - #1
    2009 - #13
    2010 - #1
    2011 - #1
    2012 - #6
    2013 - #14
    2014- #18
    2015 - #11
    2016 - #10
    2017 - #7
    2018 - #17
    2019 - #6
    2020 - #3


    What this all proves is that there truly is only one year where Tomlin blew it as a coach and all blame has to rest squarely on his shoulders. I dont know what kind of rainbow you thought he could pull out of his azz for the rest, but ok.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  11. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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  12. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    Ouch.

     
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  13. SteelersfaninPhilly

    SteelersfaninPhilly Well-Known Member

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  14. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Team gives up opening drives on a regular...before the offense ever touches the field...and doesn't force punts in the last till the 3rd Quarter...yet in somes mind it's the Qbs fault. I don't give a Dang who the Qb is(Ben, P. Mahomes, or Dan freaking Marino) you are not winning games that way. Again this is just more fanboys that predicted a Qb would be bad....so that's what they are going with. I could bring up stats that show He's not even the worst Qb in the AFCN let alone the whole dang league...yet that's all they are is stats, and graphs.
    How about show me a team that has all the low Defensive rankings we have in so many categories that are just killing it out there.
     
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  15. FeartheBeard

    FeartheBeard Well-Known Member

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  16. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    Hard to look at...

     
  17. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Not to defend Ben's play, which I think we can agree has not been good, but I think you have to question what some of the stats are they're using here. "Passing grade" and "turnover-worthy plays" sound like somebody's homespun statistics whose components and veracity I'd question.

    Here are PFR's and ESPN's QB ratings (I tend to prefer the former) for the AFC North:

    Burrow: 101.6%, 51.3%
    Jackson: 87.5%, 51.1%
    Roethlisberger: 88.9%, 43.1%
    Mayfield: 89.9%, 37.9%

    It's hard to find a comparable QB that's worse than Ben in those ratings (e.g., rookies, QBs with limited attempts, etc.), but it's not good company in terms of performance:

    Goff: 87.0%, 29.3%
    Jones: 84.8%, 40.9%
    Lawerence: 72.3%, 33.9%
    Fields: 69.0%, 25.9%

    Analytics in the NFL continues to develop. The tweeted ratings aren't necessarily invalid, but it's hard to know how much weight to give them without knowing the drivers. Either way, Ben's performance has not been good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  18. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    It's bunch of crap by people that Said Ben should quit so they are trying 2 prove it.
    Just like the spin they put this week about How Lamar Jackson prowess with 4 ints, and 1td Helped the ravens beat the brown. Not the ravens D , but something special Lamar did with his 165 yards of passing 4 ints, and 1 td. LoL. It's all narrative, and some people are gullible.
     
  19. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    On defense, I’m worried about too many personnel changes.

    Maybe we just need to simplify what we are doing?
     
  20. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    This league is more complex than ever, simplifying isn't gonna make you any better.
     
  21. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    Something to factor is that AR2 works with both Colbert and Tomlin and done so for a long time. He likely doesn't want to work with brand new people until he truly has to even to the detriment of the team. So if Colbert should retire, that'll probably make him want to hold onto Tomlin even more. He's never gonna be a burn it to the ground kinda guy like Jerry Jones or whoever.
     
  22. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

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    They're trying to prove it by reporting objective facts?
     
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  23. DukeDukeDaDaDa

    DukeDukeDaDaDa Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry man but regardless of what Jackson does, Ben still needs to go. He needed to go last year.
     
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  24. SpeedyMikeWallace

    SpeedyMikeWallace Well-Known Member

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    People go out of their way to avoid blaming Tomlin and the Steelers organization is happy to let that be the narrative. It's never his fault, it's always something else at fault. No one on the planet has such a luxurious shield of infallibility around them. Not even the ****ing Pope
     
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  25. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    The same objectivity that talked about Lamars awesomeness in pulling out a win over the Browns???That objectivity???
    Those same objective people??? Yeah.... That's what I thought.
    We Beat the Browns ...Ben throws 1td No ints....those same objective people said We won in spite of Ben.
    Lamar throws 4 ints, and 1 td....those same objective people said it was Lamar Jackson awesomeness that won the game......Really objective. :shrug: At least I see where You get from now. LoL.
     

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