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What will it be?

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by mac daddyo, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    I'm not writing him off. And if we did get him at #28 I would probably be optimistic.

    For me, in a comparison between LVE and Evans, I'm taking Evans all day. His tape is just so much better IMO. Not that many people were even talking about LVE before the combine as a legitimate option at #28 and that scares me. His workout was impressive but is it blinding people to his faults?

    If Evans had run at the combine and ran 4.55 are we even having this discussion?
     
  2. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly ....great point on Evans ,you beat me to it. I was gonna say the same thing, 4.5 range and combined with his tape people would be hoping he fell to us...like I've said as well his tape doesn't show a slow player. Injury is my only concern. There is no Shazier replacement in the entire draft,we might have to get over it.....makes you wonder how we ever fielded competent LBs all the years before Shazier.. Seems to be a lot of teams with good defenses succeeding without 31 other Shaziers.....
     
  3. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Kind of reminds me of Mosely/Shazier. I liked Mosely but was concerned about his durability. Shazier came up on the short end of the stick on that concern. That groin is something to consider though, they can linger.

    For me, LVE is better suited for the Steelers, hes better in coverage IMO and has good blitzing ability. I also think Evans benefited from playing behind that line.

    Like you, I would probably be optimistic if they took Evans. I just prefer LVE.
     
  4. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    This is the way I feel, I prefer Evans but if it is LVE I too will be optimistic. I watched the BYU game and just didn't see a guy who could shed a block and that worries me going into the next level, I didn't see that with Evans.
     
  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    That game was terrible too. If thats all you watched of him, not surprised you feel that way.
     
  6. Lizard72

    Lizard72

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    I'm with you guys on LVE. I see a lot of guys that knocked Dirty Red on here saying that LVE can get stronger.

    Evans has shown that he can make plays in the biggest games against some of the top talent. He does not play slow at all.
     
  7. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well at least you know why then, honestly I don't have time to watch a bunch of tape. So when I see one or two games that aren't impressive I move on. I will say I have probably only watched half as much games as I did last year, even though the weather has stunk I still have been pretty busy.
     
  8. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The same people that say Evans had the benefit of playing behind Bamas DL also need to take into consideration the huge talent gap between the two conferences and the athletes Evans had to go up against...it works both ways.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Bama played it's share of cupcakes too. Some very similar opponents as Boise. I think there is and has been a lot more parity lately in college football. The jump to the pros has not been that tough for a lot of players from conferences other than the SEC. I think some overstate the fact of who Evans played against is reason why his numbers are not as good. :cool:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    I guess I dont care as much about the overall numbers as you do. Yeah his tackle numbers aren't as high as LVE. Is it because there was more talent on Alabama? Alot of talent going for tackles. Whereas LVE was definitely a man amongst boys on Boise.

    All I know is Evans brought his A game vs the best, LSU, Washington, Auburn, Clemson & Georgia.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    It wasnt a slight. It was the first game i watched and I was like eww. So I would totally understand why you are luke warm on him if that was all you watched.
     
  12. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'm looking at it as the same names on bamas team were making a lot of tackles every week. Harrison, Everett, brown and a few others. Many of whom are either o-linemen or DBs. We have that problem too, way too many tackles NOT being made by the guys who should be. Too many DB tackles. Now move our leading tackler to the FS position concerns me. Shazier going out shifted that focus on guys that should have been making more tackles, like Vince. His numbers are nowhere near timmons numbers. Big concern for a guy we have to rely on to do it. I see the same thing with Evans frankly. We will end up with what amounts to Vince Williams. Numbers will be down. We need those numbers way up. Not sure he's the guy to do it. Then we add the pass coverage to that and it really intensifies my concerns. I'm not sure LVE is that guy either. That I want to put out there too. This is part of the reason I do think we will lean on more of a big SS type and adjust the defense around bostic possibly. I also think they will seriously consider a more move type LB like Carter or Jacobs or Baker or O'Daniel. :cool:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    No offense, I watched almost 2 not sure what the 2nd game was but wasn't impressed and moved on. I like to give a guy more than one chance to wow me just in case he has a bad game. So my question is and not to be a smart a$$ but if the BYU game wasn't good and the Virginia game wasn't good why is so many people high on him?
     
  14. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Idk Mac stats can be very misleading. You would have to go back and watch every game to see where and when these tackles were being made. Were teams behind early and forced to throw the ball so the secondary made more tackles? Did teams abandon the run or come in with pass heavy attacks because they knew they couldn't run against them. Where the guys upfront swallowing up the RBs? Stats don't always tell the whole story. Oddly enough I have seen quite a few comparisons between Evans and Timmons right down to the measurables and their history as former OLBs. You keep saying Evans is like the guys we have already ,I disagree and see way more athleticism from him than what we have. If he would of ran a 4.5ish 40 would you feel differently?
    Of the guys you mention Carter is the only one with a possible first round grade but it's strictly based on his athleticism ,not his film. The others probably fall in the 4-6 range. The chances of a ILB at that point being a difference maker dip dramatically. You could get lucky but most times there's a reason for their status. I know I'm on record saying that team scouting isn't always on point,they are wrong plenty of times too. At the same time I can't dismiss all the scouting and preparation that goes into the way teams construct their draft boards. LVE and Evans are really the only two ILBs with first round grades. Depending on how much our coaches value the ILB position and who is actually available when we pick will determine our direction. I can easily see both guys being gone and us being forced to go another direction. That's what makes this draft so hard to predict. I think we will go BPA with need being a big but not decisive factor. Basically every position is up for grabs....the only positions I definitely don't want to see at 28 is....QB,RB or WR and OL. I would understand and have to put my faith in their decision no matter the position ,besides the one mentioned.....
     
  15. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    yes his speed is one concern but so is his pass defense ability or lack there of from what i have seen. sure we can use him as a pass rusher and as a run stuffer but the position has evolved more in the pros of late, so those things he did at alabama may not translate to the versatility we really need from that position. estimates have evans as a 4.73 guy but also his quickness numbers are not earth shattering either. explosion numbers either. all these things point to fairly average for me. if we didn't have such a need right now would he still be your choice for us? in other years would he be a number 1? some have him as a second rounder anyway. bostic signing to me at least lets us think about it. evans actually may be like the 5th, 6th or 7th best LB in the draft. does that mean we should settle for that? carter is a guy that can do a lot of things and that speed with that length seems like a better prospect to work with. can he move inside? maybe. can jacobs from wisconsin? probably. he has played both as well. so it's not about the numbers but the ceiling that each could reach for me. jacobs would be the better value too. do you think evans will or can step right in and play for us? he couldn't for bama. this isnt the best year to need an ILB that is for sure. is he the BPA at a position of need for us? for me NO. thats my take on it anyway. thats JMO. :cool:
     
  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    He still had 5 tackles and an Int in the BYU game and 6 tackles and 4 assists in the Virginia game.

    If thats what he does in games it looked like he didnt show well, I'm all in.
     
  17. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Mac you went on a rant previously about his lack of tackling. You made me go look it up. He tied for team league in tackles (74) to go along with 13 for loss,6 sacks, 3 passes defended, 1 recovered and 1 forced fumble. While missing 2 games.So I don't know why you went that route. You also said he couldn't start for Bama he was a 5 star recruit at OLB and was forced to move inside because of injury. He started his Jr. and Sr. season while learning a new position. I feel Evans would have a much better chance at starting than Carter. Among Evans attributes are alpha dog,leader and communicator,and played his best in the big games we can use that in spades on a defense that got bullied all over the field. I get it you don't like him but at least be fair....Some ( almost all) have Carter with a 2nd round grade but you wanna take him with the hope" maybe " he can move inside. You don't like Evans it's cool ,it's your opinion but there's still a lot to like if you take a honest look....
     
  18. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I must have missed that INT so I went back and watched it again and yep still missed it. Now Blast I really think you are very knowledgeable when it come to football and players etc but if you are going to tell me you are happy with LVE's game vs BYU then I have nothing to say.

    I went back and watched that game and noticed the following: on his first tackle it was 9yds down the field and the WR was tripped by #10 I think and LVE covered him up. A little later it was 4th and 1 and 78 pushed LVE 5 yds off the ball...first down. In the 1st qtr 2nd and 6 LVE dropped into coverage making the tackle 10yds down field at the 2. Ist qrt 4:50ish made a good play in the backfield for a loss, also in the 1st at 3:05ish another good play in the backfield. 2nd qtr 2nd & 8 11:05 made the tackle....9 yrd gain. 9:50 1st and 10 bad coverage on the TE big gain. Not long after that was an incomplete pass and they showed the replay and again LVE was covering the TE and he was wide open the QB was under presser and didn't see him. #78 had his way with LVE all game......was not impressed.

    Now i went on to watch the Oregon game the LV Bowl and he looked a whole lot better. He made plays out on the flat one on one with the RB and he did show some physical actions at the line of scrimmage. He did also have some missed tackles but who don't. Now if you were to tell me you liked that game I would understand cause he was 100 x better in the Oregon game than he was in the BYU game. In the end I am not rooting for the pick but if it is him I will be happy to root for him. He does show a non stop motor which is one thing that I really like in a player.
     
  19. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    If you dont want people to accuse you of putting words in their mouths, maybe you shouldnt say things like that. What I said was that his stat line was still pretty good for not standing out when watching the film.

    If you say the Int is not in there, Ill take your word for it, Im not watching it again.

    https://www.google.com/search?ei=Ns...2Fw#sie=m;/g/11g6px5t6k;6;/m/012hfxch;dt;fp;1

    Stat line says Int. You didnt watch the whole game right? Just Vanders film? Maybe it got left out.

    If youre not impressed with LVE, its cool, they cant all be Harlan Miller. :whistley:
     
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  20. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    Harlan! :hehehe:
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 2
  21. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    One guy I haven't talked about much, only because I don't see him as an option for the Steelers is Harrison Phillips from Stanford.

    If we needed a 3-4 DE I would be all over this guy. He's probably a little light to be a 3-4 NT but man can this guy anchor against the run. He would be a complete shock at #28 but you know you would be getting a great player.
     
  22. Ender

    Ender

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    I'm beginning to get the feeling this is gonna be one of those weird drafts.

    I don't like Evans in the first, but I think Roquan Smith and LVE will be gone by 28.

    I don't know if Bates or Reid are worth a first either, but Minkah Fitzpatrick and Derwin James will likely be long gone by 28.

    This may be a year when we draft someone we all don't like (Ziggy Hood) or overdraft a guy for need (Burns).
     
  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I dont think you can rule much out in the first rd, so who knows. He looks like he belongs on the Oline :lolol:

    Strong as hell, 42 reps.
     
  24. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    If you say so......

    As for the Miller comment there is a big difference between talking up a 1st rounder then talking up a later rounder, but if that makes you feel better have at it.
     
  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    He averaged under 3 tackles a game in his career as that 5 star recruit. Less than 1pass defended every 10 games. Not what I consider a # 28 pick overall. Sorry.:cool:
     

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