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What will it be?

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by mac daddyo, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    1-2-3 will be the crucial rounds for us. What do we really need right now?

    I do think we are still looking for that bigger SS type that can play the LB spot. As close to a shazier as we can get. As big as we can get and as fast as we can get. With tackling ability but also coverage ability. We have looked at harrison. White is due for a visit. Flowers has been looked at. Edmund's has been looked at. There is definitely a pattern here. Carter is interesting as well with his speed and length. He was voted as the most versatile player on that team. He was moved around as were many of these players. I'm not saying we won't get an ILB at some point but this attention to this type of player has caught my eye. I have been talking about this type of player for awhile now being used in our hybrid defense that I don't think is going anywhere just because Ryan isn't here anymore. Or at least not here for now. Sort of like shazier 2.0. :cool:
     
  2. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure if LVE or Evans makes it to us they are the pick and the reason I say that is every single mock draft I have seen has us taking an ILB. I am not that big of an LVE fan as I don't see the strength when taking on blockers. If we pick him oh well hope I am wrong but I am rooting for Evans here.
    I have a feeling this draft is going to be like last year where we have a need in round one and then round two is a shocker. With that said I am going to say RB is our 2nd rounder Penny, Ballage, maybe even KJ.
    I think round 3 is a S I know Bates is climbing but one can hope he last but if he don't then maybe it is Elliott.

    Maybe rounds 2 & 3 get swapped it is very hard to tell where players are going to fall and I know many here are very high on Bates so they will not agree. I can see something like LVE-Bates KJ????
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I don't think either one of those guys is anything better than what we have already or much of a different type of backer. Those mocks are just a guess and many haven't changed since Feb.. They don't take into account FA acquisitions. I think we have a better chance of taking harrison over Evans. Gawd I hope so. I'm not so sure why everyone is so enamoured by this kid. I do think teams have cooled on him. Now if he was brought in as a Vince replacement that may be different but not the shazier spot. That's the one we need filled. :cool:
     
  4. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    We know.....you used the word hybrid so much you definitely drive a Prius...;)
     
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  5. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Mac and I can go back and forth on Evans until we're blue in the face ,so I figured I'd have some banter with you. I'm in the Evans camp and I think his versatility is being undersold. He might not be as fast as Shazier but no one is. He is a sideline to sideline player which is what we need and also has the ability to come off the edge very effectively because that's were he started at Bama he really is just starting to learn ILB. If you watch the tape he has plenty of burst and a sure tackler....even if he didn't run the 40. Yes his injuries are a concern but so were Watts coming out....I thought we brought in Burnett to be that undersized LB with Davis supposedly moving to FS. We didn't bring in Bostic to sit the bench. I think they have some faith in his coverage ability. There isn't another Shazier out there and even if we look to draft a undersized LB or oversized S they still aren't gonna run like Shazier. We need guys to stop the run first and foremost and the better the coverage skill is a big bonus. I have a hard time imagining another SS type especially if we draft ILB. We already have guys like Sutton,Allen and Golden looking for a position. That's quite a few guys with talent being wasted if we draft another S ,unless it's a FS which would allow us to bring Davis back down and Burnett as the jack of all trades.

    Teams are gonna try and exploit our weakness in the run game and I'm quite sure they're not gonna announce to us when they are gonna throw the ball so we can put in our extra DBs. We need to stop the run first and foremost and Mr. Rooney said as much. Our gap integrity was terrible especially without Shazier to cover up some mistakes. We aren't gonna be able to replicate his ability with anyone we draft ,but we can hope to soften the blow with more instinctual and disciplined players. We need a run and hit LB and I think Evans fits the bill.......IMO.
     
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  6. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    Then our staff is wasting a lot of time looking and meeting with these SS types like harrison, white, flowers if we are not considering them. No we won't find another shazier but we can find some guys that are much closer. :cool:
     
  7. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    They get to and do visit with a lot of guys. I'm not saying they're not at least somewhat interested but where and when are these guys supposed to play. I highly doubt they are considering any of those guys to take the place of a ILB full time. We will be fielding 2 legitimate ILB one will be VW and one will be Bostic. If they draft a ILB that is gonna be good enough to replace one or the other ,it will be the draft pick starting with whoever else wins the job. They are not gonna draft one of those big safeties and have them start in place of a true ILB. If they truly plan on using Davis at FS they could be looking for a backup for Burnett and to bump Wilcox off the roster. Burnett is up their in age....I just don't believe they are drafting a SS to replace Shazier.
     
  8. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I am for Evans over LVE, I am not a LVE fan so you and I are on the same page there. :thumbs_up: As far as finding another Shazier here is how I look at it we don't have to. If we have safety's that cover better than we wouldn't need a LB to cover as much. We still need LB's to cover but not like we did in the past when Shazier played more like a safety, jmo. Also a name to keep an eye on later in the draft is LB Fred Warner. I feel this is a guy depending where we play him inside or out offers tons of pass coverage.

    I think when it comes to safety we are wide open since Davis is so flexable. I would have no problem with either a SS or a FS, I am not sure what the plans are for Berhe but I am reading he is more of a SS. So maybe a FS is now more on the Steelers radar after this signing......
     
  9. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    My fear is that we still don't have a true FS on the team (lots of SS)and the way we play single high ,one is needed. To me the "ball in the air "is the biggest weakness on the D along with more consistent run stopping. Mr. Rooney spoke about stopping the run and when he speaks coaches listen. That's why we brought in Bostic and Burnett they are proven physical run stoppers. We saw what we have behind Shazier and it doesn't amount to much,so there is still room for a upgrade at ILB....
     
  10. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Mac but your wrong or at least the mock you are looking at is wrong cause I look at a lot of mocks and they change daily. Also you can search and find recently updated mocks and pre and post FA/combine mocks. Also a lot of sites have the mocks listed by dates. I am not saying mocks are right or wrong but it is the best I have to go on since no team will share what their draft board looks like and no team is gonna tell anyone who the like or dislike.

    As for Harrison over Evans I am for Evans and the reason being the safety class is so deep I feel I would rather have a top ILB early since the mid level safety's are still pretty good. Now the LVE vs Evans for me I am on the Evans side. I am not in love with Evans but I am less in love with LVE. Yeah LVE had a ton of tackles but when I watch him I see a guy who is not overpowering and that scares me at the NFL level. I am not saying I would be mad at the pick I am just saying who I prefer. :thumbs_up:
     
  11. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I hear where you are coming from and maybe we need a FS more than a SS but I think we are fine. Also Davis has played all over including CB so FS should be easy for him, unlike others I feel this could be a big year for Davis.
     
  12. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Idk I can't help but to keep going back to the point that as terrible as Mitchell was they didn't give Davis a shot at FS. It was painfully obvious Mitchell had no range,no ball skills and missed a ton of tackles. Why not bring him down to SS where his weaknesses could of been covered up somewhat. Now if you want to tell me they are gonna make Brian Allen a possible FS from the start of camp ,to me that option would be more in line with actually drafting a FS early....He has a year in the system already ,a former WR which I think is a big plus and is very athletic. My problem with drafting another SS is that we have Burnett, Davis ( who maaaybe can play FS) M Golden,Berhe and Wilcox still on the roster. I think we only dress 3 and we still need to find roles and positions for Sutton and Allen....our DB room is still very crowded.
     
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  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    We played 3 safeties a few years back. They liked that defense because it did help against the run and we still had better coverage with a safety than a LB, except for shazier but he had that speed that safeties have. A SS is usually a little bigger but can still tackle and run. I know you don't like the hybrid word but we play that defense far more than the conventional 3-4. It makes sense for an extra SS to help in many ways. You have to look at the guys we are considering and looking at so far.

    As you said we tried using gay down in the box even. 3 safeties make sense, we just didn't have the horses to do that. Just because Wilcox is still here means nothing. Golden is a FS. Brian Allen did play FS and CB so he also has those skills if needed. Burnett can play both. I do however think you are pigeon holing that position way more than the Steelers do. They have always said they don't distinguish between the two and their safeties can be either position depending on the alignment. That 10 LB. difference in the LBers they are looking at and the bigger SS is minimal compared to the things they can do in this defense comparatively.

    I'm also sure we will add a more conventional LB as well but we are looking at a couple early but a whole lot of them are 2nd and 3 Rd day guys too. :cool:
     
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  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I have no explanation for the Mitchell deal, so many people talk about how bad he was but yet the Steelers didn't make a move. The Steelers defiantly thought different however now with him gone we will get to see what happens. I really like Davis in the FS role and I hope I am right that he will have a big year. As far as who is on the roster now don't mean they will be there at the end of camp. I can not see Wilcox staying on this roster with the salary he is making. I know there has been a lot of talk about Allen moving to safety but until that happens he is still a CB.
     
  15. Ender

    Ender

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    I have a bad feeling about Evans. Why won't he run? Groin still not healed? Is he just slow? It's concerning to me.
     
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  16. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    Would have liked if he had ran. Possible that the groin is still not 100%. Not sure if he has long speed or not but his short area explosion shouldn't be in question.
     
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  17. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I'm pigeon holing the position because clearly the coaches do. If we have so many guys that are so versatile that they can easily play single high then how come as Mitchell was failing miserably no one else was given a chance? There's a reason they are showing interest in a guy like Bates,he's a pure FS and lacks the physicality to be a SS. There is also a reason they went out and signes Spence off the scrap heap when Shazier went down. They tried every able body they had at ILB including Moats. They even played Spence and Fort in the Jags game desperate to try and find somebody to fill the ILB spot. They weren't taking that other LB off the field and plugging in a SS,peculiar considering all the guys we have that you say are interchangeable and capable. They brought Bostic in to play and to play alongside VW and they wIll look to draft what they hope will be a immediate or near future starter if the draft falls their way.
     
  18. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The alarming part is if the groin isn't healing quickly....but it's hard to blame a guy for not running if he's not 100%. It could destroy his draft stock. The burst on tape don't lie and we are big on what a player puts on film when making our picks. I still think his inside/outside versatility is being undersold. The big concern to me about Evans is only injury and not ability. That's just something you can't predict.....
     
  19. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    That was then. Last year means nothing now. We still had Mitchell and our coaches were going to play him. We are looking at Bates but we are also looking at harrison and white and flowers. I'm not sure why Wilcox didn't get in the jags game, ask our coaches. Spence came in because again our coaches thought moats could do it on a short notice. We didn't have weeks to prepare.

    You do realize Bates was the starting strong safety for wake Forest. That shoots holes in your theory my friend. :cool:
     
  20. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    We are looking at pretty much all the top tier safeties because it is a position of weakness on the team. There are basically 2 (Davis and Burnett) that they have faith in or have actually proven anything on a NFL field ,so that explains our interest in the safety class whether it's SS or FS we need both. You can put a SS tag next to Bates all you want but everyone knows and every write up I've seen and tape I've watched says FS...he's only 200lbs.......semantics.....we looked at a boatload of TEs too....due diligence.
     
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    All the kid does is make tackles. Not sure why you are concerned with him shedding blocks. Didnt seem to be a problem when I watched his film.

    As for mocks, if its not by one of the beat writers, dont waste your time. I swear some of these outside guys havent even spent 5 minutes evaluating the team.
     
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  22. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    The Virginia tape indicates his inability to shed blocks could be a really big problem in the NFL.
     
  23. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    If he is hurt I have no problem with him not running and if he is hurt I am pretty sure teams know since these guys get combed over pretty good. Also the film shows he plays fast so that don't bother me.
     
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  24. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    :icon e surprised::icon e surprised::icon e surprised: Because at the next level he will not be given free reign at the ball carrier he will have to use his physical ability to shed blockers and I just don't see that. LVE puts up the numbers but what I worry about is him being able to take on blockers at the next level.

    As for the mocks I get it they are what they are but they do change that was my point there and I agree a lot of these guys are just hacks.
     
  25. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    They'll get him in the weight room. His frame can handle a good deal more of muscle.

    Hes too good at finding the football for me to write him off because of the Virginia game.
     

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