What now?

I say do just this...franchise him next year. So we pay 11 mil for his services...plus the 2.7 this year. That is a 13.7 mil 2 year contract. Compared to the 20-25 mil guarantee on a five year deal...we would be giving him less then 7 mil per year (nothing compared to #1 wr money)

I'm sure the Steelers are doing just that...sign a long term deal or we will franchise you next year and possibly the year after that too.

Anyway we add it up, it is cheaper than the 5/$50 that he might have turned down.

He will sign long term...by the first game or whenever the Steelers stop talking to him for the year about contracts.

 

I agree with the MVP decision. Brown was a better choice for MVP because he brought an extra 1,000 yards on special teams, and Wallace brought zero. Of course, Wallace figures to catch up to Brown in special teams yardage this year and every year in the future, unless we have injuries.

What the hell are you basing the assertion that Brown was a "better blocker at WR by far" on? Seriously, I've seen absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever. Both give subpar effort for way too much the time and only bother doing it when they feel like it. Both are moderately talented but nothing special when they actually give the effort. I have no doubt you can remember a specific block Antonio made at some point (I can), but over the course of their careers, there is nothing to suggest Brown has outperformed Wallace in this department. Looking back at my evaluations of last season, Wallace is actually ahead by a little. And I know Wallace wasn't even in the same state at the time so maybe I shouldn't count this, but this preseason I've seen Brown more than once actually jump out of the way of the defender to avoid making a block, much to the detriment of his team. Just this second I turned on some tape to see if I can back that up, and so far I've watched 6 plays in 2 different preseason games and have yet to see him make a good block or make a good effort. Maybe I just landed on the wrong 6...?

I know he has a reputation for being an extremely hard worker, so it's logical for you to assume that carries over to his blocking, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still just making it up.

 

Go back to your play station/Madden.

 

You know I hear that argument alot, that Brown is so good because Wallace draws the double coverage to his side, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Brown will be successful whether Wallace is on the field or not. I know it's just the pre-season, but AB looked pretty darn good the other night when he was torching the Bills first team defense, which is supposed to be strong this year. I guess the news of Wallace reporting within the next few days was probably the reason AB was able to get open and make plays.

 

You know I hear that argument alot, that Brown is so good because Wallace draws the double coverage to his side, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Brown will be successful whether Wallace is on the field or not. I know it's just the pre-season, but AB looked pretty darn good the other night when he was torching the Bills first team defense, which is supposed to be strong this year. I guess the news of Wallace reporting within the next few days was probably the reason AB was able to get open and make plays.[/quote:3tiug8xd]

Brown is a very good receiver, not taking that away, of course he's going to produce with or without Mike but to try and argue that someone doesn't benefit from a player being double teamed is just silly. It's not something you can argue, it's common sense, applies to any team and any player. I'm beyond baffled you would even make such a statement.[/quote:3tiug8xd]

Agree.

Not sure if JackAttack was implying that Wallace didn't garner much double coverage last season, especially the second half of the season, or if Wallace being doubled didn't help Browns performance? Either one is false really. Brown is looking like a tremendous talent at WR but Wallace was getting doubled quite often and Brown benefited from it regardless of his own talents.

 

You know I hear that argument alot, that Brown is so good because Wallace draws the double coverage to his side, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Brown will be successful whether Wallace is on the field or not. I know it's just the pre-season, but AB looked pretty darn good the other night when he was torching the Bills first team defense, which is supposed to be strong this year. I guess the news of Wallace reporting within the next few days was probably the reason AB was able to get open and make plays.[/quote:19oa8n7p]

Brown is a very good receiver, not taking that away, of course he's going to produce with or without Mike but to try and argue that someone doesn't benefit from a player being double teamed is just silly. It's not something you can argue, it's common sense, applies to any team and any player. I'm beyond baffled you would even make such a statement.[/quote:19oa8n7p]


So who was getting doubled the other night that led to AB's big time performance, TE, Manny Sanders???

I realize that another receiver being double-teamed will obviously benefit the receiver who is drawing primarily single coverage, but I think at times the Wallace apologists on this board love to throw the argument out there that the only reason AB has had the success that he's had is because MW is getting double teamed. Take that out of the equation and AB is a dud. I'm not saying that you feel that way but there are those on this board who seem to not want to give AB his due and only want to attribute his success to MW lining up on the other side and that has me "beyond baffled"!

 

You know I hear that argument alot, that Brown is so good because Wallace draws the double coverage to his side, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Brown will be successful whether Wallace is on the field or not. I know it's just the pre-season, but AB looked pretty darn good the other night when he was torching the Bills first team defense, which is supposed to be strong this year. I guess the news of Wallace reporting within the next few days was probably the reason AB was able to get open and make plays.[/quote:3iiqjmbl]

Brown is a very good receiver, not taking that away, of course he's going to produce with or without Mike but to try and argue that someone doesn't benefit from a player being double teamed is just silly. It's not something you can argue, it's common sense, applies to any team and any player. I'm beyond baffled you would even make such a statement.[/quote:3iiqjmbl]


So who was getting doubled the other night that led to AB's big time performance, TE, Manny Sanders???

I realize that another receiver being double-teamed will obviously benefit the receiver who is drawing primarily single coverage, but I think at times the Wallace apologists on this board love to throw the argument out there that the only reason AB has had the success that he's had is because MW is getting double teamed. Take that out of the equation and AB is a dud. I'm not saying that you feel that way but there are those on this board who seem to not want to give AB his due and only want to attribute his success to MW lining up on the other side and that has me "beyond baffled"![/quote:3iiqjmbl]
Yeah, it's pretty baffling when a fan just doesn't want to give a receiver his due for some weird reason that doesn't really make sense.

Brown is a great receiver worth every penny of his $42 million. He would have success without Mike Wallace on the field. To suggest that he does not benefit enromously from having Mike Wallace on the field, or to suggest he would play as well against a #1 CB and a safety as opposed to a #2 CB and possibly no safety is downright stupid.

 

You know I hear that argument alot, that Brown is so good because Wallace draws the double coverage to his side, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Brown will be successful whether Wallace is on the field or not. I know it's just the pre-season, but AB looked pretty darn good the other night when he was torching the Bills first team defense, which is supposed to be strong this year. I guess the news of Wallace reporting within the next few days was probably the reason AB was able to get open and make plays.[/quote:1flom5k9]

Brown is a very good receiver, not taking that away, of course he's going to produce with or without Mike but to try and argue that someone doesn't benefit from a player being double teamed is just silly. It's not something you can argue, it's common sense, applies to any team and any player. I'm beyond baffled you would even make such a statement.[/quote:1flom5k9]


So who was getting doubled the other night that led to AB's big time performance, TE, Manny Sanders???

I realize that another receiver being double-teamed will obviously benefit the receiver who is drawing primarily single coverage, but I think at times the Wallace apologists on this board love to throw the argument out there that the only reason AB has had the success that he's had is because MW is getting double teamed. Take that out of the equation and AB is a dud. I'm not saying that you feel that way but there are those on this board who seem to not want to give AB his due and only want to attribute his success to MW lining up on the other side and that has me "beyond baffled"![/quote:1flom5k9]

I don't think I have seen a single person here insinuate that AB is only successful because Wallace gets double teamed, simply that he benefits from it. And can we please stop putting so much stock into a f**k**** preseason game? It's ridiculous.[/quote:1flom5k9]


It may have been a pre-season game, Tomlin, but (correct me if I'm wrong) it was primarily against the starters. And AB had success all of last year. He had a great second half and it just seems to me that there are several here that want to say he had a great second half but...

Sure he benefits from Wallace being on the field, but Wallace disappeared the second half of the year and he's disappeared in every post season game he's been involved in. I know, I know, he was getting double teamed so just forget about it. I'm tired of belaboring the point.

 

Brown is a very good receiver, not taking that away, of course he's going to produce with or without Mike but to try and argue that someone doesn't benefit from a player being double teamed is just silly. It's not something you can argue, it's common sense, applies to any team and any player. I'm beyond baffled you would even make such a statement.[/quote:1q89n68u]


So who was getting doubled the other night that led to AB's big time performance, TE, Manny Sanders???

I realize that another receiver being double-teamed will obviously benefit the receiver who is drawing primarily single coverage, but I think at times the Wallace apologists on this board love to throw the argument out there that the only reason AB has had the success that he's had is because MW is getting double teamed. Take that out of the equation and AB is a dud. I'm not saying that you feel that way but there are those on this board who seem to not want to give AB his due and only want to attribute his success to MW lining up on the other side and that has me "beyond baffled"![/quote:1q89n68u]
Yeah, it's pretty baffling when a fan just doesn't want to give a receiver his due for some weird reason that doesn't really make sense.

Brown is a great receiver worth every penny of his $42 million. He would have success without Mike Wallace on the field. To suggest that he does not benefit enromously from having Mike Wallace on the field, or to suggest he would play as well against a #1 CB and a safety as opposed to a #2 CB and possibly no safety is downright stupid.[/quote:1q89n68u]

Get your facts right, Snack. It's $42.5 million.

And I think AB is now entrenched as the number one receiver on this team. I think AB can hold his own against most number one corners. Of course he could have more success against the number twos, that just stands to reason. But ABs sucess doesn't need to be qualified. I'm not even necessarily saying that you do this, but I've read many posts on this board that always want to qualify ABs success.

Here's my prediction this year. AB will have double the receiving yards AND will score more touchdowns than your boy Wallace. Then maybe when teams start double covering AB, Wallace will be able to regain his former success.

 

You know I hear that argument alot, that Brown is so good because Wallace draws the double coverage to his side, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Brown will be successful whether Wallace is on the field or not. I know it's just the pre-season, but AB looked pretty darn good the other night when he was torching the Bills first team defense, which is supposed to be strong this year. I guess the news of Wallace reporting within the next few days was probably the reason AB was able to get open and make plays.[/quote:1asi0t2p]

Brown is a very good receiver, not taking that away, of course he's going to produce with or without Mike but to try and argue that someone doesn't benefit from a player being double teamed is just silly. It's not something you can argue, it's common sense, applies to any team and any player. I'm beyond baffled you would even make such a statement.[/quote:1asi0t2p]


So who was getting doubled the other night that led to AB's big time performance, TE, Manny Sanders???

I realize that another receiver being double-teamed will obviously benefit the receiver who is drawing primarily single coverage, but I think at times the Wallace apologists on this board love to throw the argument out there that the only reason AB has had the success that he's had is because MW is getting double teamed. Take that out of the equation and AB is a dud. I'm not saying that you feel that way but there are those on this board who seem to not want to give AB his due and only want to attribute his success to MW lining up on the other side and that has me "beyond baffled"![/quote:1asi0t2p]

I don't think I have seen a single person here insinuate that AB is only successful because Wallace gets double teamed, simply that he benefits from it. And can we please stop putting so much stock into a f**k**** preseason game? It's ridiculous.[/quote:1asi0t2p]


It may have been a pre-season game, Tomlin, but (correct me if I'm wrong) it was primarily against the starters. And AB had success all of last year. He had a great second half and it just seems to me that there are several here that want to say he had a great second half but...

Sure he benefits from Wallace being on the field, but Wallace disappeared the second half of the year and he's disappeared in every post season game he's been involved in. I know, I know, he was getting double teamed so just forget about it. I'm tired of belaboring the point.[/quote:1asi0t2p]
Not sure if this is good enough, but in the Super Bowl he had 9 catches for 89 yards and a touchdown. Although there is someone around here (not sure if it was you or not) who blames him for Ben's INT and final incompletion. And I can think of plays in games against the Jets, Broncos, and Packers right now in which he got open deep and was underthrown.

 

But it seems as though you wont give Wallace his credit for what he was able to do the first half of the season. He was tearing it up early on. There shouldn't be any dispute about that. The second half of the season his numbers fell off. He certainly didn't disappear though. What he did do was draw double coverage from defenses that understood they HAD to do so to contain him. Brown, who has shown is a tremendous talent, benefited from that. It's simply a fact. It doesn't diminish his talents at all. It just gave him an opportunity to shine and show off his abilities. Which in turn I would think gave Ben more confidence in him, resulting in more passes his way. Plus logically Ben is going to throw to a receiver that's in single M2M coverage over one that's doubled.

I myself bring up the double coverage fact not to underscore Browns talent, but more so to show that Wallaces numbers just didn't drop because of his lack of talent.

 

Jack I was going to get your back on this one....Wallace is a great deep threat and he used to require help over the top...Teams have came to realize that and realized you can put your strong CB on him and beat the guys around him....What I mean by that is sending the heat ,instead of the double Team on Ben's and BA'S favorite target simply beat the play on the front end with that extra guy...

IMO this is why 2 things happened....Wallace's stats went way down and Brown started torching people....The reason that Brown was able to torch people is because he got 1 on 1 coverage,,,,now the big question is did Brown get that coverage because of the double Team on Wallace or because Teams decided to get after the QB???From what I saw it was Teams wanted to get after the QB and as a result it also shut Wallace down....

Haley has the right approach he is going to use the RB'S to help Wallace get off the line,by throwing to the RB'S it actually slows the Press coverage,because if you press and fight with the WR and the RB catches the ball in that area the RB can use that fight as a screen to run away from the guy assigned to him.....In turn you back the DB'S off and give the under neath guys room to run....The WR who can exp;oit that the most is the better route runner because he can find the space and catch the quick ball.....This is AB and not Wallace.....

Wallace has a lot of work to do and speed won't help him on his journey...

 

But it seems as though you wont give Wallace his credit for what he was able to do the first half of the season. He was tearing it up early on. There shouldn't be any dispute about that. The second half of the season his numbers fell off. He certainly didn't disappear though. What he did do was draw double coverage from defenses that understood they HAD to do so to contain him. Brown, who has shown is a tremendous talent, benefited from that. It's simply a fact. It doesn't diminish his talents at all. It just gave him an opportunity to shine and show off his abilities. Which in turn I would think gave Ben more confidence in him, resulting in more passes his way. Plus logically Ben is going to throw to a receiver that's in single M2M coverage over one that's doubled.

I myself bring up the double coverage fact not to underscore Browns talent, but more so to show that Wallaces numbers just didn't drop because of his lack of talent. [/quote:3djk9k5y]


Canton, you're right. Wallace did have a heckuva first half. But then it seemed to me that DCs figured out how to take him out of the game plan. I also realize that AB did derive some benefit from that, but I guess I had seen enough "AB had a great second half, but..." posts that I just had to say something. Contrary to what many people believe, I'm not a Wallace hater. If he can continue to get better and become a more well-rounded receiver (see Brown, Antonio), then both he and AB will benefit, and our team will benefit. I realize that I've been pretty candid with regard to some of my comments about Wallace and I guess I'm still a little po'd about this entire contract dispute and the fact that he SEEMED to be treating it as if he had already achieved greatness. The Steelers, based on what I've read, put a pretty fair offer on the table and Wallace SEEMED to thumb his nose at it. Even his agent, Bus Cook, seemed to get a little impatient with Wallace. I hope Wallace gets his head screwed on straight and gets ready to play some football. We'll see where his head is at pretty quickly I would imagine. I know I've been pretty critical of Wallace and may have even been a little irrational (see definition of fan) from time to time, but Wallace needs to act like he's still on the journey, not like he's arrived.

 

Thanks, PWP. I think your analysis makes a lot of sense.

Snack, out of curiosity since you have analyzed every game from last season, do you have definitive "game film" proof that Wallace was double teamed allowing AB to run free or is that just the assumption?

 

Honestly, with the way our o-line has been these past couple seasons you don't think defenses tried to get after the QB from week 1? And to my point, our weak o-line didn't help Wallace much either. I think we can all agree that BA loved the playground style of football and basically called for Wallace to "go deep" a lot. With Ben feeling the heat almost instantly it didn't allow much time for Wallace to get open deep. You seemed to imply this but i'm not positive that's how you meant it. Not to mention Ben has underthrown Wallace on more than one occasion.

I will agree that a strong run game mixed with a lot of PA pass will definitely benefit Wallace.

 

I agree with this as well,and it adds to the reason Teams will and do want to send the heat...The Deep Ball takes more time and it takes better timing,it also gives the front guys more time to Beat up on Ben.....

So if they can Beat Ben up and take away his ability to extend the play then that in turn takes Wallace away,pretty much what I was saying above just the deeper part of it....

Again Haley has the right plan hit the quick stuff and try and limit the abuse that Ben takes....In order for Wallace to do his part he must become stronger off the LOS,he must study and recognize the Defense better.he must become a better route runner and a better blocker...I don't hate Wallace these are simply the facts if Wallace is to become a complete WR.....If he does these things he could become 1 of the best WR'S to ever play the game....