what has happened to ......

"the diamonds in da ruff" or the first round impact players? I mean,saunders may qualify as a diamond in the ruff but not yet.Ziggy and heyward aren't tearing it up,as of yet, to be considered impact players.

 

I think Ziggy is doing fine...maybe move him the middle someday. Heyward isn't playing enough to really evaluate, at this time. However, I do see him becoming an impact player. He has the tools and from what I have read the intelligence to be a player. Sometimes, we have to remember how long a diamond takes to form!

 

Ziggy is more of a bust than an impact player. Watch him and you will see him get blown out on every play. I was a big fan of his until reality hit.

 

Heyward is going to be a beast. But as usual, he's not getting the playing time.*

*I'm aware I could be wrong on this - I don't notice him on the field much, so if he's there and doing nothing, then feel free to correct me.

 

Unless a player is truly exceptional (Aaron Smith before injury bug, Casey Hampton before fat and washed up), they are not really going to be stand out on a 3-4 offensive line, that is the facts of formation. They are only there to take up blockers so that the LB's can make plays.

 

Heyward reminds me of a young Julius Pepper. We'll have to wait & see.
Ziggy has had up and downs, but he'll be fine in years to come.

 

I don't know quite where you're getting this. We're famous for our consistently solid to studly first round picks, and that hasn't slowed down in recent years. But the team is also famous for working its rookies onto the field at a very slow pace -- sometimes painfully slow. Timmons and Mendenhall are impact players that did not produce right away. Ziggy* is considered a success by most people. To say Pouncey was an impact player right away is an understatement. Heyward is a stud by all accounts that has starters in front of him and is being worked in slowly like always.

Our 2008 draft now has only 2 meaningful players remaining, since cutting Sweed. The '09 draft was also not good, in my opinion. But we've really stepped things up the last two years. Some diamonds in the rough the last few years (outstanding value for where taken, even in early rounds):

Woodley (2007, 2/46), Wallace (2009, 3/84), Sanders (2010, 3/82), Dwyer (2010, 6/188), Brown (2010, 6/195)

True, there's no James Harrison or Willie Parker type UDFAs or Brett Keisel 7th rounders, but I'd still argue that we have found our share of guys that are way better than they were "supposed to" be, given where they were selected and the players that were picked around them. I know the 2nd round isn't "diamond in the rough" territory, and 2nd rounders are supposed to be starters, but if that draft were held today Woodley would be a top 5 pick. Wallace would be top 10 for sure. Sanders would probably go early 2nd, Brown might squeak into the 1st, and Dwyer... I have no idea. But are some great steals. If Stevenson Sylvester winds up starting for Farrior eventually, he'll also be a steal.

Let's look at last year's draft. Heyward will be a star for years as soon as he cracks the starting lineup. Gilbert has already outperformed expectations and proven he can play LT, not just RT or RG. Curtis Brown was considered fantastic value at the end of the 3rd, and while he looks good, Cortez Allen is looking even better. Chris Carter could turn out to be another steal in the 5th and might be starting for other teams, and Baron Batch was reportedly far and away the most impressive rookie of the class back in training camp, despite having the lowest expectations at pick #232. Saunders went undrafted, and he is also riddled with potential and should easily be the #2 TE by now. That means only Keith Williams didn't make it, and 6th rounders aren't really even supposed to. We've had two very good drafts the last two years, from beginning to end. It's already paying off, and will pay off even more in the future. The way we've gotten into the swing of things, I can't wait until next year's draft!


*About Ziggy Hood. My thoughts on him are that he is solid, but unspectacular. Nowhere near Aaron Smith, but much better than Eason, Kirschke, etc. He's disappointed me as a pass rusher, because he was supposed to be great at that and he's pretty average. But I don't think he's getting dominated every play, and yes I've watched him closely. He is our worst starting defensive lineman, but Keisel and Hampton are very good (no matter what people say about Hampton). Ziggy holds his own. He does have room to get better. He needs to shed blocks better instead of just holding his ground and waiting for a 'backer to make the play. But he really bailed us out last year when Smith went down, and I still see him as a long-term starter. He is a very hard worker, on and off the field. I don't see that pick being a bust. And after looking at who was selected after him, I don't see a single person I'd rather we'd taken. And it's really hard for a player of that position to be an "impact player." Aaron Smith was, and Heyward might be someday since I think he will be a great pass rusher, but not many people in the world would consider Brett Keisel an impact player. If Ziggy has a career as good as Keisel's, I'll be quite satisfied with him.

 

Good analysis. I think the impact player point is important - even Aaron Smith was pretty underrated outside the Steelers fanbase until recently.

 

Re: what has happened to ......

Postby HugeSnack » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:22 pm

*About Ziggy Hood. My thoughts on him are that he is solid, but unspectacular. Nowhere near Aaron Smith, but much better than Eason, Kirschke, etc. He's disappointed me as a pass rusher, because he was supposed to be great at that and he's pretty average. But I don't think he's getting dominated every play, and yes I've watched him closely. He is our worst starting defensive lineman, but Keisel and Hampton are very good (no matter what people say about Hampton). Ziggy holds his own. He does have room to get better. He needs to shed blocks better instead of just holding his ground and waiting for a 'backer to make the play. But he really bailed us out last year when Smith went down, and I still see him as a long-term starter. He is a very hard worker, on and off the field. I don't see that pick being a bust. And after looking at who was selected after him, I don't see a single person I'd rather we'd taken. And it's really hard for a player of that position to be an "impact player." Aaron Smith was, and Heyward might be someday since I think he will be a great pass rusher, but not many people in the world would consider Brett Keisel an impact player. If Ziggy has a career as good as Keisel's, I'll be quite satisfied with him.[/quote]

Ummmm, Keisel was a 7th round pick, so yes he's brought good value to our team and has a pro bowl on his resume. Hood was a first round pick and was expected to be an impact player, even as a down lineman in our 3-4 scheme. He's now in his 3rd year and should be showing some signs of breaking out, but in my opinion, he isn't even in the breakout discussion. He has 6 solo tackles and 1/2 sack in 10 games of mostly full time play. To me that's not worthy at all of a first round selection at this stage of his career. He probably has the least impact of any of our 11 defensive starters, by far.

 

Ummmm, Keisel was a 7th round pick, so yes he's brought good value to our team and has a pro bowl on his resume. Hood was a first round pick and was expected to be an impact player, even as a down lineman in our 3-4 scheme. He's now in his 3rd year and should be showing some signs of breaking out, but in my opinion, he isn't even in the breakout discussion. He has 6 solo tackles and 1/2 sack in 10 games of mostly full time play. To me that's not worthy at all of a first round selection at this stage of his career. He probably has the least impact of any of our 11 defensive starters, by far.[/quote]
you do know we run a 3 4? 3 4 DE DO NOT PUT UP GREAT NUMBERS IN SACKS AND SOLO TACKLES! just saying there job is to be like a OL take up blocks and let the LBs run free and seeing how our LBS gets sacks id say he is doing his job

 

how about antonio brown? i think he would qualify. wallace? sanders? none of these guys were high draft picks, but may make up one of the best receiving corps as a whole in the nfl. that's pretty impactful if you asked me. worilds looked better in his last start then he did in his first one this year. legs and foster two udfa have definately helped out on the line. cortez allen has flashed some playmaking ability in his short stints on the field. heyward has had a couple of good plays this year. mclendon has had a few. we have to remember these guys didn't have the luxuary of ota's like other classes had either.

 

USC hit it on the head.If you dont hear alot about the D line in a 3-4 and the D as a whole is really good(2nd in total D to this point).The D line is doing their job!!Thats our D.....Linemen eat up the blocks.Guys like 92&56 make the tackles and sacks.

 

You're talking about Keisel like he is only good "for a 7th round pick." Like he is good value, but that's where it ends. He's an amazing player. He got off to a slow start because of established starters in front of him, but he's a total stud. If he'd been taken as the last pick in the 1st round, he'd be considered well worth it today. If Ziggy turns out that good, I'm happy.