What do you think our red zone problem is ?

Yep.


Realistically, this is how it should have been to start the season. This "High Flying Circus" of an offense was never a good idea anyway.


Given Le'Veon's and the offensive lines abilities, this team has been designed to use the run to set up the pass. Weapons like Antonio Brown and JuJu Smith Schuster help but having a strong rushing attack not only amplifies Ben's capabilities but theirs as well indirectly.

 

I shouldn't have said countless. That's on me. I was wrong to imply that. I'll provide instances for you shortly, however, to back up my assertion.

In the mean time, here are some interesting links along these lines.

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000485296

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...layer-whos-never-played-football-in-his-life/

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the-5-best-nfl-players-who-didnt-go-to-college.html/?a=viewall

 

OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you meant examples, not studies. Because if you meant studies, I'm pretty sure I know what the actual number is.

 

Seattle has no true RB and their OL is considered below average . Panthers don't have a good running game either and their OL is considered below average .

If those Teams had Bell and our OL they would be at the top of the list . The teams at the bottom with mobile QB'S have poor OL play and not elite RB'S.

Lets revisit the playcalling thing 1 more time. The lack of mobility of Ben takes away over half of the most effective GL plays.


Here is a good Video of Play Action and it explains how the hard Play fake opens the routes . This is just 1 example. My take is Ben can't get from under Center fast enough to make the handoff much less to make the fake . If he can't do it then how can the OC call it ? Again 1 of many plays and concepts that can't be run effectively with a non mobile QB .

 

This point about a QB being too slow to make a handoff makes no sense whatsoever. If Ben were really that decrepit, we would have no running game whatsoever. And it would mean that Peyton Manning would have never handed off to a successful red zone rushing TD in his life.

It's similar to your claim earlier this year that Bell's style is easy to stop because defenders can wait and see which hole he hits.

 

I keep reading this thread and I still can't believe we are all watching the same games. Ben is not the sole cause, he doesn't help himself a lot but as I said, he doesn't get many options when the play is sniffed out before the ball is snapped. I went back and looked at 30 red zone trips from the first 6 games, 30 trips and 24 of them had the same formations and the receivers ran the same routes. I told my wife, I said "watch, this formation will have AB run an out rout and come across while the JuJu runs a slant across the middle and the TE will chip and try to get open in right side of the end zone". It happened, again and again and again, if I can see it you can bet your house DC on every NFL team can see it. That was 30 randomly selected red zone possession in no distinct order and 24 times the exact same formation and play call, that right there is a major problem, it is called predictability. As for some here that suggest "running it down their throats", well how many times have we watched that show and then complain about running it up the middle over and over for no gain? This is a different o-line, these guys can pass block and if you look at the run game they use zone blocking with trap plays and pulling guards that actually take time to set up, when 8 guys line up on the LOS they don't have time to run those plays and the o-line isn't built for the power run game anymore, they don't generate any forward movement, that is why when they ran Watson on the 3rd and 1 against the Bengals it failed, the line actually went backward, there isn't a QB in the league that is going to sneak it or run to the "C" gap to make that play when the line gets pushed back. Remember Willie Parker, he either got 10 yards or more or was stopped for no gain, we had a power run o-line that was perfect for a back like Bettis but not Parker, I'd be willing to bet Parker or even Mendenhall, who did the same thing Bell does, would have been awesome behind this line with a zone blocking scheme but at the goal line or short yardage the OC needs to use scheme and tactic. Haley gets too cute with his tactics but they are now so predictable everyone watching knows what is going to happen, on short yardage it will either be a failed run up the middle or a bomb to AB and in the red zone it will be an extra lineman with the TE running a short out and AB running an out route and JuJu or whoever else they put in will run a slant across the back and then Ben will run the scramble drill because all those options will be covered and he'll have to throw the ball away.

 

Huh? If you're actually claiming that Ben can't make a "fast enough" handoff, or execute a PA fake, you weren't watching the game last week. Again, you're reaching for only those scraps of data that support your belief and gluing them together with more assumptions ("if those teams had Bell and our OL they would be at the top of the list"). Not exactly the makings of a compelling argument.

 

http://settingedge.com/week-5-qb-spotlight-mitch-trubisky-and-the-value-of-athleticism-to-an-offense

Pay close attention to what is needed to run the outside zone . Also what is needed to run the Play Action and Counters off of it .The Depot had a chart showing the Steelers only ran outside 5 times in 3 games . On down in the article it shows the dive and boot game . No way can Ben run it . It also shows why the QB needs to be mobile to run the RB screen better .

A slow QB dictates the types of runs you can run and the types of plays you can call from those runs. Ben has never been good at the RB screen game, Ben has never been able to run the boot, Ben has never been able to run Waggle . Ben has never ran the Sprint game.The Steelers have barely ran outside zone from under Center Ben's entire career. As a result this Team is limited in what they can call and the most effective red zone plays can't be called.

 

Exactly what I am saying . We can't run outside zone. We can't run Waggle. We can't run the boot game. We can't run the Sprint game .

Speaking of Manning do you know his favorite play? It was spint draw right and sprint draw PA pass. His last 2 or 3 seasons he barely ran it because he couldn't . His stats went way down because of it .

 

We only implemented outside zone schemes in 2013. That was due to personnel and coaching.

Ben has never been good at the RB screen game? This article from last year - which has things like real stats in them - begs to differ.
http://www.cover1.net/steelers-screen-game/

The problem is PWP, you come up with some good suggestions, and then go way overboard in pushing the point and it becomes silly.

The idea that Ben has slowed, and that might affect some of our playcalling = interesting point.

The idea that Ben has never been able to run certain plays because he's rooted to the ground, and the only answer is to put Dobbs in = pushing it too far, interest lost.

 

At the risk of beating a horse that should be dead, define "coached up".

 

Yet we still never call those outside runs ? Why?
RB screen game got good because of Bell. Not because Ben can run the sprint screen game like the Eagles do. They score a bunch on it .
Of course that is my nature, either go Bold or go home. I wished our Coaches would channel more of that sometimes.
Not that he is rooted to the ground just not fast enough and really never was. He used to break tackles to get the ball off not get it off because of his foot speed.

Dobbs is not the only possible answer. I think Bell or Brown at QB in a wildcat look might work better as well . The main point is we have been bad in the red zone for years and we need to be making changes to get it better .IMO the best move is the Bold one so it probably wont happen .

 

Have you ever seen the camera man fooled by a Ben play action... nope.. Cameras lose the ball often with cam and russell etc..

 

you're right on that one.

 

Don’t you mean...

“Your write on that won.”

 

yep probably. oh sorry, yes probably.

he gave me a good zinger there. it still doesn't change the fact that he's still wrong about his statement. just a deflection.

 

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/1...expected-make-first-career-start-former-team/

no coaching was needed for this transformation i guess.

 

Not as much as would be needed for you to make a valid point. But hey, keep sticking emojis at the end of your statements. They at least make your drivel entertaining.

 

Improving their game and elevating level of play are definite tasks of a coach at this level, actually at any level. But those are generalities. And I'll never say that there isn't something new to be taught, but at this level, the vast majority of these athletes have years of being taught under their belts. It's fundamentally the same game at any level of play. The difference is the quality of performance.

Granted, the physical ability at this level allows an athlete to perform differently than at other levels.

Think of it this way. One team might "teach" techniques and tendencies of a zone blocking scheme differently than another. And part of that team's focus comes from the abilities of its personnel. Two zone blocking offenses are not created equal.

So again, I assert that the coaching is much less teaching athletes the fundamentals of their positions and far more tweaking and fine tuning based on the desired execution of a scheme.

 

Just trying to get a grasp on your coaching argument. Are you saying they are coaching a scheme to fit the players or coaching the players to fit the scheme?

Because I've heard Mark Schlereth talk about his different o-line coaches and one would use the players' strenghs and the other would be scheme rigid and say you are going to play it this way even though it would be to the defense's advantage. And he gave an example of trying to block Cortez Kennedy on a certain play and he always just got creamed.

So just like you say two zone offenses are different, so are coaching styles.

As to players knowing the fundamentals when they enter the pros, I guess QBs who have rarely taken a snap under center or WRs who don't know how to run the full route tree should be in the realm of the almasty, spookems and the Browns winning a playoff game.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...nough-credit&usg=AOvVaw2HwsqQJ0paVuNB-bg5PuIl

 

Mostly, we need a BM in the AM