What do you think our red zone problem is ?

I said this in a different thread but I'll repeat it again. Tony Romo called it, he mentioned it on the short yardage problem, they come out in the same formation and the defense knows where the ball is going before it is even snapped. The o-line is more athletic now as they have gone to a zone blocking that makes for a great running game with a cut-back style of RB like we have now but the downside is that type of o-line doesn't generate forward push, when they line up they usually go back a bit so sneaks and just running in the "a" or "b" gap no longer works. The red zone issues when further out have a lot to do with play calling, and while Ben doesn't get a pass he doesn't have many options and I'd rather the FG rather than interception. The play calling is predictable and the play selection is just plain stupid, having no full back for short yardage and empty sets when inside the 20 makes no sense, there isn't any check down that isn't covered, a RB would help not only in pass protection but also act as a safety valve if there isn't anyone able to get open. There are a lot of issues, and I'd have to agree with WWW, 75% play calling and personnel and 25% execution, and a good example is having McDonald in on red zone plays as a receiver, they need JJ, he is a big target and he can catch if it is thrown to him but having an empty set with 5 wide inside the 10 is a lost causem the defense rushes 3 guys with 8 in coverage, unless a defender falls down it is destined to fail.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a version of some sort of wild cat formation with Dobbs, just as a wrinkle. But it doesn't really solve the real issues of spotty play selection and/or poor execution. This team with this o- line and the talent at RB and FB should be able to smash it in on most defenses from first and goal from the five or less.

 

I think it's playcalling. Why not give it to Bell behind Nix in the I-formation and pound it in? I think they are getting too cute with shotgun empty sets.

 

So it’s been playcalling for ben’s entire career?

 

I think Tomlin and Vick had some kind of personal friendship or something IDK. But this is a different situation with different people. The last thing I would want to do is take my QB who came into the season with problems and is -just- getting back in stride and pull him from the game when we hit the RZ.

Sounds great on paper but coaching is more than just X's & O's there's a human/psychological component to it as well. Would you really want something like this eating at your 2 time SB QB with all of the other drama/shenanigans other players are Kicking up?

I mean seriously - just think about all of the ramifications and consequences.
Can you also imagine what it would do to the confidence/moral of the rest of the team as well?

 

nonsense.

 

the problem is run,run,run, KICK!

 

Ben and Haley are not a great combination and it's worse in the red zone. The 5-wide stuff has to stop. We need to get bigger receivers more involved. This is where our lack of a good TE is really visible, too.

 

There have been times when we have made scoring in the RZ look easy....heck even a few times earlier this year. Occasionally we do execute a well designed play but few and far between. You touched on " college open" and that is 100% spot on. Ben is a big issue in the RZ because he's never been very accurate and has never been good at throwing to spots before the WR comes out of his break....working in confined space limits the Ben to AB connection. Honestly AB should be one of the last looks down there because you know he is drawing the most attention.
Others should be open ,this is where the play calling comes in....like many of you have said we run the ball down there using the same formation,then all of a sudden that's not good enough. If we would stay more committed to what is working, the easier it would be to fool a defense by running different plays out of the same formation. This is where you can easily get your big TEs involved....how many times have teams made our D look silly by running play action to their TEs. Defenses can't defend everything and it would help tremendously if you force them to pick their poison.
So IMO it is both, it is Ben's shortcomings and the OCs inability to scheme around it by using what is working, multiple options from the same formation, creating mismatches( we could have 3 or 4 ...6'5 or better receivers on the field) and when it comes to Haley sometimes......common sense.

 

Nope, the only thing blinders do is overlook history. Ben has NOT historically struggled in the red zone. And trying to blame one man out of 11 (plus coaching staff) for inconsistent successes over a 14 year span is ludicrous.

 

Just as a point of interest, if you look at red zone scoring rankings (TD only), you’ll see that we’ve ranked around 16th pretty much every season since 2003.

(Can’t find stats before that just now).

The only blip was 2005, when we were 4th. Otherwise we’ve been between 12th and 22nd.

So I don’t know if the “since Bettis” claim is true. The last 14 years are the textbook definition of mid-table.

 

Holy cow! We have this conversation every single year. look at the freaking stats

 

Thank god im not the only one that takes the ten seconds needed to look this crap up. It's asinine that we have this conversation about redzone scoring, but people are terrified of pointing the finger at Ben.

 

I agree. I am not sure why people question things regarding this offense after all these years? People always made one excuse or another. Ben needed an Oline to give him more time, a different OC, better and tall WR's, or something else.

The red zone is where the passing windows are smaller and decision making needs to be quicker. Ben seems to struggle more in that area of the field than any other. It's safe to say that the Steelers offense will probably never reach their red zone and scoring potential with Ben as the QB. Ben has typically been a win ugly type of QB his entire career.

 

They should change Ben's number from 7 to 3

 

I think it would solve a lot of the play calling . Ben is only mobile enough to run in the A or B gaps or slow types of runs. Ben is not good with pitches either .A QB who can actually get out from center quickly.A different type of QB who could run with the RB'S and make pitches and run himself would fix the play calls.

Teams know that we are limited to running in the A and B gap and it can't be fixed with Ben at QB.

If Ben is a true Team leader he would rather Dobbs get those snaps if it resulted in more First Downs and TD'S . The rest of the Team should be on board with that as well.

 

I suppose you could give it the old "college" try and it might work once or twice a game for one week... Maybe 2 if you're lucky... Or you could just try changing up formations instead of spread out and empty set inside the 10... Or shotgun handoffs inside the 10... Or heavy packages with a single WR and no fullback.
I'd bet that might help a lil bit on all those 3rd and 1's last week too.
We can all draw **** on a board like a pro OC and throw this and that or this person and that against a wall to see what sticks, but bottom line is gimmicks are just what they're called... Gimmicks and they work every now and then when things line up like last weeks punt fake for example.

Good ole fashion packages need new wrinkles or atleast common sense wrinkles and they lack there hard
I remember the O'l shotgun handoff was a flag waiving play. Now in the days of nickel D packages being so prominent it's succeeded quite a bit, but in short space it's not the best option against a base D that knows it's coming IMO. Time to play power ball and sneak in that over the top TE fade that's killed this D for decades.

 

I am all for more Power Football but Ben can't get from under center to the C and D gaps fast enough to run ISO or any type of blast. We also have another good RB in Conner so no gimmick to get him and Bell on the field together in split backs . Same problem Ben can't move good enough to run cross buck or any other fake to 1 guy and give it to the other.

As I stated above a QB who can pitch has real value near the GL .A QB who can reverse pivot and handoff and pitch has even more value. If Ben tried to run a reverse pivot pitch he would break both his ankles and both his knees . Guess what Teams know that . So they line up outside edge and slant to the middle and shoot extra guys thru the A gaps.

 

Maybe I'm conservative, but I'm kinda glad we don't do a lot of pitches near the GL. A direct hand off seems less risky. I wasn't a real fan of the shovel pass JuJu scored on a couple weeks ago, but hey it worked lol.

Plus you make it sound like Ben just pulled his leg out of a bear trap, the guy can still turnaround and hand off to the wider gaps, he's just coming back at an angle meeting the RB. And a D gap run play would seem tough to pull off with all the defenders concentrated in that area. SS is going to be on the TE side and the DE on that side will probably be on the outside shoulder of the T causing the TE to block down. So maybe the lead blocker gets the SS (if Haley has one in), but then you have the strong side backer.

 

The freaking stats show that we have converted over 50% of red zone entries to Td's since 2003, with only 2004 and 2009 dipping below 50%. The top teams every year convert over 65%. So have we been a top team %wise? No. But we're also not failing as some of you claim.

As I stated, Ben is not historically deficient in the red zone. And again, he's not the only one on the field.

 

I feel Ben was at his best in the Red Zone his first few years in the league.During that time he had a legit power running team, a great short yardage WR in Hines, and a TE to target like Heath.

 

You'll forgive me if I'm not understanding your logic on how Ben "is not a precise thrower, he is not threat to run" and "not a good play faker either" but is still the "better thrower" than Dobbs, though "not better than Dobbs overall."

Further, I'm not convinced that while Ben is the QB to navigate the team from anywhere to the opposing 20, he simply cannot be the QB to get them past the goal line, or other short yardage situations. I think a harder look at the plays being called and execution across the board (including, on occasion, Ben's) is more the path to take. I don't yet see where it simply resolves itself by giving Dobbs a hat.

 

Play design (coaching) execution (Players.) I would prefer power football with play action

and run pass option.

 

I looked at the stats and concur we actually do have this conversation every year .. multiple times lol