Welcome Minkah Fitzpatrick

Haven’t we been talking about fixing these problems since NE blew us out in the AFCCG and then followed it up by getting owned by Blake Bortles? When does the insanity end? It’s always next year and after the season....

 

Well I dunno about that but for some odd reason Ben told mink to paint his moustache yellow. Not sure what that means tbh

 

That is exactly the problem with thorn's post. It is an oversimplification aimed at a gotcha moment rather than a fair evaluation of these situations.

Just because trading up in some cases can be a good thing doesn't mean every time they move up in the first round it is the right call. They still have to get a good player without overpaying by too much. There is a hell of a lot of ground between a first-round pick and a package of late picks. His example was disingenuous at best.

 

The defense was completely helpless against the Patriots and it was just as helpless in the second half against the Seahawks. It may get better, but what they have shown through two games is horrid. One player isn't fixing all that.

Now figure in that they have to take a guy who is primarily a slot corner who has been moved all over the place by the Dolphins and make him a free safety. They have to do it on the fly. Oh, and it is Butler who is in charge of handling the transition. Butler has enough trouble getting his guys on the same page as it is. Imagine the potential for communication breakdowns now.

 

Give it a rest dude

 

News flash: Tomlin was coming back next year anyway, he signed a contract extension thru 2021.

 

of course, Ed Douchette is an idiot:

Ed Bouchette
✔
@EdBouchette

In one word: Dumb. They aren’t going anywhere this year anyway. If Mason Rudolph doesn’t play well and they tank that first rounder could be a QB

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticPGH

 

Most football people are saying the move is dumb. Fans love it, especially the fans that play football on their Xbox , cause all trades turn into genius moves in their world.

If Mason isn't good , we just lost the opportunity to draft a franchise QB by trading for a safety that wants to be a corner . Most would agree our season is lost so the move makes no sense.

 

He's definitely less cost controlled. 40% less,right? He'll have 3 years vs. 5 years for the draft pick. I certainly get that he's a more proven commodity than any player that would be drafted.

To get that added certainty at the expense of two years of cost control, however, they sacrificed draft day flexibility in a) who you can pick to fill a need, QB, OLB, whatever, and b) the ability to move up or down in the draft since you don't have a lot of good assets to deal. The Steelers are going to have one pick in the top 100 or so in the 2020 draft. That's not inconsequential imo.

What then would be the measures of success or failure of this trade? I ask because it's difficult for me to come up with measures that aren't tied into this season. It can't be how many Pro-Bowls Minkah plays in, because those are not going to mean much if Rudolph stinks. (If the Steelers' FO discounts the risk of him failing that's irresponsible, imo. No one knows what he'll do at this point. You can think you know, but there's absolutely no real data to go on.) This trade works if the Steelers and Rudolph play well this season and the draft pick we give up is #24 or something. If they go 6-10 or 5-11 and Mason looks pedestrian or doesn't show signs of improvement as the year progresses, they give up a Top 10 pick and this deal looks awful.

If the success or failure of this trade is intimately tied to the success or failure of this season then it has to be a short-term gain trade at the risk of mortgaging your future, right?

 

Agreed

The phins are doing what rebuilding teams do. Get rid of players that dont want to be there. Load up on draft picks and get a QB to build around .

The steelers did what SB contenders do. Which makes no sense because we clearly do not fall into that category. This is a move I’d expect from a bad organization. Lets not forget Colbert came from the Lions organization. The Brown and Bell situation was also a disaster. James Harrison . Either Tomlin and Colbert are football geniuses or they are turning us into the old Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc . So whats more likely? Tomlin a genius?

A year ago we were talking about how to get Bell playing with Ben and Brown. Now all 3 are gone. Brown and Bell look fantastic. Ben is done . And we are trading away 1st round picks. We cant score or stop opponents. And the FO still thinks we are contenders? I’ll be the first person to admit Im wrong . But this reeks of incompetence. I sure hope Im wrong.

 

Plus he’s probably scorn since he’s not the Steelers beat writer anymore.

 

I feel a pick 6 Sunday afternoon.

 

That isn’t entirely tru, but it does highlight the risks involved. What if they do go 6-10 or worse, but Fitzpatrick shows he can be a great player and Rudolph shows enough to at least deserve another shot?

 

I love this trade. Knowing what we know about Fitz Patrick and if he was being drafted next year I’d have no problem using a first round pick on him. So in my opinion we basically got our first round pick from next year a year early.

 

He chose that after 30 years on that beat. The bile directed at Him around here gets truly ridiculous

 

Just imagine if the spot Dupree has actually produced.

 

I was a but shocked at the trade...and I wanted them to do it. But I also thought that when I was expecting to draft in the late 20's I top 10 pick..that might hurt a little....So I am surprised they did this at the same time they were putting Ben on the shelf.

In general though I have no problem with the trade. Right now I was not in love with any of the top guys next year. I like a couple of CB's But I always like some CB's

Fitzpatrick is better than any of the safeties in 2020, and he is a little seasoned already.

I have no problem trading for a proven commodity if he is "THE MAN"

I honestly would still go after Ramsey as well. Yes I know the Jags want a 1st round pick....The Steelers wanted a 1st rounder for AB as well.

I would offer them a 2nd in 2020 and a conditional in 2021 that could be a 1st based on the Steelers being able to sign him to an extension, and a player. Burns, or Sutton, Hilton to replace him.

HACK

 

Think about it this way: It's like adopting a kid, who you know is a great kid, without having to potty train it.

 

And for those claiming it's a waste for what would have been a franchise QB, who is this QB you speak of?

 

Scenario A: Steelers play well and Rudolph plays well meaning they end up 9-7 or 10-6, in the playoffs, but don't make SB.
Scenario B: Steelers don't play well, 6-10, but Rudolph does and shows he has the potential to be a franchise QB in the Carson Wentz mode.
Scenario C: Steelers and Rudolph don't play well, 6-10.

In A, I'll assume that they need to shore up OLB, WR, and maybe TE/RB depending on Conner and McDonald's health to become a true SB contender. Gonna be hard to do with only one pick, a middling second rounder at best, in the first 100. If Steelers had not made this trade, add S to the list of needs. They'd have that middling first rounder that they could trade down if need be. In short with the trade they're still not a SB contender and without it they'd be about the same place.

In B, they've got their QB, but have a lot of needs to fill. Now they're comparatively worse off after the deal than if they hadn't made it. They lost a 8-12 pick which could have gotten an impact player or been traded down to fill more needs.

In C, it's a cluster. They're in really bad shape. They need a franchise QB but don't have a top pick or even a package of picks to trade for one.

I guess my point is this trade doesn't get the Steelers substantially closer to a SB title either for now or the future, because the reality is it's a QB league, and it could get us substantially further away in the future depending on how Rudolph plays.

Risk is measured by the chances of something bad happening multiplied by the consequences should that bad thing happen. In this case, even if you believe that the chances of Rudolph failing are small, the risk is still high because the consequences should he fail are huge. Given that, I just don't think that the return here is worth the risk.

 

I like the move. Adding some stud young defense guys ad he's very versatile.

 

That is fair, but your analysis ignores the team’s need at safety. Fitzpatrick is as safe a bet to fix that as anybody they could draft next April