Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Benny Lava, Jan 24, 2022.
If it was up to Cowher the Steelers would've passed on Ben to draft an OL player , try again.
Cowher thought he had something special in Tommy Maddox and therefore didn't want Ben. He knew he had something special in Troy Polamalu.
Again, it's a crapshoot but back then the information source was limited. Now, there is too many statistics and hype to make the judgement. Tomlin went with the hype and his gut feeling, as he would like to put it.
Aaron Donald counts $25M against the cap. Why wasn't he just as big of a savings on his rookie deal as a QB was?
I'm not disagreeing that a QB on a rookie deal could possibly give better value than a rookie deal at another position. I'm just saying that isn't always the case and an elite player at a similar position can give similar value.
Regarding building a team and then getting a QB I 100% agree with that on principal. If a QB falls you think could be a franchise QB you take him but it's going to be a mess if you don't have an OL and decent help at skill positions.
I dunno. If people knew how players would work out based on information alone, draft success would be very different. Ryan Leaf, etc.
I think the blame to be apportioned for trading up for Bush is that the Steelers were basically forced into doing it by previous draft decisions.
BS, Cowher had no clue about the QB position, Kent Graham, Jim Miller . Lucky for him Dan Rooney overruled him and told him to draft Ben.
I think they were forced/panicked... Because of Shaziers unfortunate injury
Mahomes is the best QB in this league by far and Josh Allen stood right there with them. Put Joe Burrow up their also. So all are exceptional QBs with both their arms and leg and the new generation of elite QB talent imo.
I made a comment on here mid season the Steelers didn't deserve to be there. We just didn't play good enough and I knew that. Although obviously I was happy they got in, I knew it wouldn't be long.
Beside some exceptional individual talent showcasing in Watt and bless him Heyward, everything else was meh. Also have to throw Najee Harris in there poor guy had no line to run behind and no real threat to stretch the field. So he took a lot of wear and tear on his body this year. I do think Friermuth was an excellent pickup with a bright future.
I think we in Steelerville tend to be in a bit of denial myself included. How can we say we're not in a rebuild? We want to hang onto the likes of TJ Watt, Cam Heyward, and Minkah Fitzpatrick.
As much as I hate to say it, these players all deserve to go to a team that has a shot at winning a title.
We the Steelers missed on some big players in the draft (cough BUSH). Other teams hit and now we're far behind. Mason Rudolph would be stretching his head on what to do as Mahomes would show him up.
I feel bad for Cam Heyward actually. The guy's been a stellar player and professional. He's a guy I want to retire a Steeler. What's a bit sad is I'd be ok to see him traded so he can get the ring he deserves... the guy has been the heart and soul of this defense.
Because I have a feeling also this team will have some rough years rebuilding (I said it Rooney won't).
I'm actually rooting for the Bengals now in the playoffs. It's ok we're not there they haven't won a playoff game since the early nineties so rooting for the underdog....
Rudy, Rudy, rudy...
I do remember this and also the feeling when Ben fell to 11 and they actually selected him.. I was absolutely extatic as I felt we actually had an elite QB that can come back and win games.
Ben did far better than I ever thought winning rookie of the year. Good memories.
Now we're seeing Mahomes do what Ben did back then even only better. Everything but shake off blitzing players that is. I've never seen a QB like Ben in his youth shrug off blitzing defenders kike nothing happen and throw it deep down field.
I think we need to build the best defense possible. There's zero guarantee that the next QB chosen will be a franchise QB, and by no means am I saying ignoring the position either. For every Mahomes or Allen, There's twice as many Carson Wentz or Mitch Trubinski's out there.
I also think it's time to revamp our scheme/philosophy to do what ever it takes to limit the elite QBs of today. I ain't saying let's make our base and 33 Stack ala West Virginia and others. But we definitely got to look into what PAC 12 and B12 defenses are doing to stop Air Raid and spread offenses, at that level. The 34 has served us well for 30+ years, but as the game evolves, we must evolve. And perhaps the 34 with different concepts is the answer as well. In 4 games against the Bengals and Chiefs we gave up nearly 150, so our current philosophy kinda isn't working, and yeah I do understand that injuries has played their role this season.
LMAO he's right the dude's freaking funny
Maybe we should give ol Duck a call he beat Mason out last time
Not really relevant to the discussion but I remember your posts on here dating back 20 so years when I used to post under a different name. You and Mulpwr. For some reason the only two I remember but good posts
I'm in the same philosophy. A great QB that has no time or supporting cast becomes another David Carr.
Imo our offensive line is not ready for an elite QB. They need to draft some high-grade offensive lineman.
Who on this forum actually believes that Austin isn’t the next DC. Let’s pretend for one second we hire outside the organization will that guy call the plays? Did the real DC (Tomlin) get fired? The answer is NO. So prepare to suck more in 2022 than 2021 (which is saying a lot)
My personal opinion is that may have been super early in the draft process that Cowher wanted the guard instead of QB.
I think Dan was tooting his own horn a little there in his book when he said he "saved the franchise". If you just looked at where they were at and who was available it is pretty obvious you had to consider a QB there.
I wonder who specifically was pushing for Troy, was it Cowher? I don't know if Cowher could envision all he could do with Troy. Dick LeBeau was the one who let Troy be Troy.
Especially the Bills-Chiefs game. It was thrilling watching two excellent football teams go at it. Different, mixed, exciting plays on offense. Not the same Steelers’ run Najee for two yards, run Najee for one yard, two-yard passes by a geriatric QB.
I thought the biggest mistake the Bills made was kicking it out of the endzone with 13 seconds left. If they squibbed it or kicked it to the 10 it would have taken 5 more seconds off of clock and I believe they would have won.
2 teams in 1982 made the playoffs with losing records. However those can probably be discarded as the result of a 9 game season due to strike.
2010 the seahawks made the playoffs at 7 -9
in 2014 the Panters made it at 7-8-1
In 2020 Washington made it at 7-9
There were 7 teams that made it with .500 records.
you can view it here
That's what I told my son right before they kicked the ball off.
Let’s not forget the Bengals and Bills stunk for YEARS and went through multiple QBs to get where they are now. For everyone who thinks there’s some magical formula for producing QBs like Burrow and Allen, the reality is it’s more down to luck than anything else.
The media and pundits like to go on about brilliant drafting and genius coaches because it makes it sound like there’s a repeatable formula to building winning franchises, but at the end of the day luck trumps everything else.
I agree that having a winning season, making the playoffs and anything can happen is a good thing to have. However watching the young QB's in these games I looked over at my wife and said "It could be rough couple of years for the Steelers if they don't find a franchise QB" Never had a losing season for Tomlin looks like it will be harder to achieve then ever before.
I honestly don't understand how some on this board, of all places, can't accept that you have to have a franchise QB. We've never won a title in the absence of a HoF QB. We can't ignore our own history.
Is it possible to win a title without a big time QB. Sure. Is it probable or likely? No.
I agree. Luck ,and great coaching.
We have also never won without a dang good D either. So let's get both.
This exactly. No need 2 destroy a young rookie Qbs confidence. JMO
Again it's not money , but % percentage of the cap.
So You agree??.
Yeah. I'm really not disagreeing with you so much as including other positions with QB. TJ Watt on his rookie contract was a huge steal for example. He is getting QB money now. Having a player like Watt on a rookie deal is a huge advantage just like having Ben on a rookie deal. It doesn't matter so much who the money is going to. It is going to 1 player and if that 1 player is injured or otherwise doesn't live up to the value of the contract it is a major detriment to the team.
I think we agree and the difference is that I'm including other positions the same way as you think about QB specifically.
I also agree it is preferable to build a team and then add a QB. That just means don't reach for a 6'1 215 pound QB in 2022 draft when there are better options next year's draft.
The Colts drafted Tarik Glenn and Marvin Harrison in the two drafts before taking Manning. Always thought that was a great way to set up a QB for the bulk of their career.
That is absolutely not true. Some of the best quarterbacks this league has seen over the past decade have been drafted outside the top 10 (some well outside the top 10). Some top 10 qbs right now are guys that are drafted outside the top 10
Top 10 QBs and/or all time great qbs
Tom Brady - 6th round
Dak Prescott - 4th round
Aaron Rodgers - 24th overall
Drew Brees - 32nd overall (round 2)
Lamar Jackson - 32nd overall
Russell Wilson - Round 3
Tony Romo - undrafted
Guys that are/were solid starters but arent top 10/premier QB's of their time. These guys have all either led their teams to playoff wins/appearances or have won the Super Bowl.
Matt Hasselbeck - 6th round
Kirk Cousins - 4th round
Andy Dalton - 2nd round
Joe Flacco - 18 overall
I think its lazy when people say that we cant get the next QB unless we draft top 5 or 10. Its so obviously not true that I find it shocking that people still hold that opinion. Does that mean it will be easy to find the next franchise QB? Not at all. But to say that we have to suck to the point of a top 5/10 pick in order to get that next guy is ridiculous.
We have the best defensive player in football in Watt, a great ballhawk safety in Fitzpatrick, a superstar DL in Heyward, a young stud RB in Harris, a young TE in Freiermuth who looks like he will be great, a quality #1 WR in Johnson.... These are all things that good teams have. We had a terrible OL last year and an aging QB that was a year too far past his prime that handicapped the offense. Then we lost 2 of our top 3 DL (one to injury and one to family tragedy) which really handicapped our run defense. If we can simply put a solid OL together and get our run defense to league average, we can make the playoffs even with Rudolph at QB. We have a good shell. This isnt a rebuild like the Jaguars where we are so devoid of talent that it will take years of top picks and luck to become even a relevant team again... We just need to add players in select areas and hopefully get that next franchise QB. Easier said than done obviously, but we are in a really good spot to be competitive again soon if we get a few things to go our way.