Was Polamalu's ball poke legal?

Was Troy's poke at the ball a legal play? When they first said it was under review, I initially thought they were questioning Troy's action and not whether it was a safety or TD...

 

Heads up play far as i can see!!

 

Why is it illegal? It was a fumble and guys are fighting to recover it and/or keep the opposing team from recovering it. Its not like he had possession and fumbled it forward. He was just trying to keep the other team from recovering the ball. If his poke was illegal, then its another dumb rule.

 

TE - So your saying that since a flag wasn't thrown, they couldn't do anything about it? Thanks for the insight... When they showed Troy on the sideline after the play, it looked like someone was telling him that it was a bad move. I don't know why he didn't just try to recover. Looked like he had a chance.

 

Seriously, does anyone know the rule on this? I thought it was a heads up play. Both were fighting for the ball. The 'holy roller' rule was meant to prevent offenses from fumbling forward on purpose to get touchdowns. Does it apply to the other way as well?

 

You aren't allowed to intentionally bat the ball forward. It was a foul.

But! Balls being batted forward happen all the time, on almost every fumble. It's very very hard to tell if a guy did it on purpose or by accident. Of course what Troy did was on purpose, but we only really know that because he's Troy Polamalu and his hand-eye coordination is way too good to miss that badly. If it was a defensive lineman, it probably wouldn't have come up and would have been considered a stroke of luck.

It was both a foul and a heads up play. The most heads up part about it was knowing the refs would likely not throw a flag because it's a flag that's just too hard to throw.

 

they mentioned a play in a game back in the 70's i believe. you cant punch a fumble forward. the rue has been around a while.

 

As I see it, Troy never had possession, so he couldn't have fumbled it forward. It was a live ball with guys fighting for it. It was a-hole Simms that brought it up to begin with and he doesn't know what he's talking about. He is such a hater that he just makes crap up. All Troy did was prevent the other team from getting the ball because he probably realized he couldn't wrap it up, so he'd give his teammates a chance to pounce on it. I don't see how that is illegal and it was Simms who said it, not the officiating crew. The only thing they were looking at on the replay was whether it was a safety or a TD for Ziggy.

I wish CBS would fire Simms because he is so biased. And BTW Phil, your son Matt sucks and got benched for 2 different freshman at UT 2 years in a row. Your boy Matt will be an insurance salesman next year.

 

The offense can't bat the ball forward. I know that much.

This is my opinion of what happened, and this may be too deep, but:

I "think" that you are not allowed to push the ball around like Troy did, and I think if Ziggy would have recovered the ball in bounds it would have been a dead ball penalty on Troy. But the fact the ball went out of bounds in the back of the endzone it was a safety and there was nothing they could call a penalty on?

 

The "Holly Roller" rule as it's called applies to anyone who fumbles the ball forward it doesn't matter if it's offense or defense. At least that's the way I interpret it. Here's the history for those interested:

The "Holy Roller"When it comes to football lore, few moments in National Football League history are so significant that they earn a specific nickname. One such bizarre play in a game between the San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders in 1978 was just that and today is simply referred to as the “Holy Roller.”

Ten seconds remained in the Week 2 match up at San Diego on September 10, 1978, when Raiders quarterback Ken Stabler dropped back to pass from the 14-yard-line. Chargers defensive end Fred Dean broke through the line and hit Stabler. Realizing there was nothing else he could do as the seconds ticked away, “The Snake” hurled the ball forward. As the ball rolled loose on the ground, Raiders running back Pete Banaszak swatted it toward the end zone. Tight end Dave Casper continued the ball’s forward motion with a kick at the five yard line and then fell on in it in the end zone for a touchdown as the clock ran out.

“I fumbled it on purpose,” Stabler admitted honestly after the game. “Yes, I was trying to fumble.”

Despite a protest from the Chargers sideline, referee Jerry Markbreit ruled it a legal play. Kicker Errol Mann added the extra point and the Raiders won the game, 21-20.

Markbreit’s decision to uphold the play was absolutely correct by the rules in place at the time. However, that would soon change. During the off-season, the league added a provision to the rule book about fumbles after the two-minute warning that allows only the player who fumbled the ball to advance it. As such, the rule change implemented will forever prevent the “Holy Roller” from happening again.

 

Interesting history lesson, thank you for that!

 

My pleasure

 

Yeah green. You can not push or slap a ball forward it is illegal to do so. Wasn't called so all they could see in the review was Touchdown or safety Steelers. Troy clearley slapped it. If it was called we would have not got the ball. Pats may have got 10 yards

 

I don't know if that's the case. If they would have called the penalty they would have basically been saying that Troy fumbled the ball forward intentionally which means it would have been Steeler ball where he touched or fumbled it. Having said that he never really had possession of the ball to fumble it in the 1st place so had they called the penalty the refs might still be there trying to figure out what to do. That's probably why they didn't call it and just chose to treat it like a normal scrum for a fumbled ball.

Look for this to result in the "Troy" rule next year where it will be illegal for a defensive back to launch himself at the football like a missile and knock it in to his own endzone 20 yards away

 

It was illegal, but when he tried to rip off Welker's head, that was legal. And spectacular.
I am going to be smiling all week!

 

Me too !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe the rule mentions something about "you cannot bat a live fumbled ball on purpose toward the opposing teams end zone (the end zone you are driving toward if u were on offense and the endzone you would run toward if u intercepted a ball or picked up a live fumble). I guess it could not be reviewed since as Sims said "you cannot review a penalty" and the Homer Nance was begging for it, but I believe if they had called it properly it would have been an unsportsman like 15 yard penalty from the spot of the foul, the clock would have stopped because it would have been a defensive penalty and the Patriots would have had the ball with like 13 seconds left and no timeouts from around their 33 yard line with a chance for a hail mary. So it actually was not a smart play by Troy P but we got away with it.

 

My initial reaction was that Troy was gunning for the ball at full speed. So even if he hadn't have batted it, momentum was going to force it backwards.

Wasn't it in the Giants-Pats superbowl that NY were called on this, and they had to review it and see if the player's arm was moving forward etc.? Troy's play looked more ambiguous than that. However, I haven't really looked at it in a lot of detail as I missed the 2nd half yesterday, so from what you're saying here it was maybe more obvious than I'm thinking it was.

All I hope is that this gets left as an anomaly, and we don't get any rule changes. Though I have wondered for a while about how long the 'can't review a non-call' will last.

 

How can it be a fumble if the player never had possession of the ball? Dont you actually have to have the ball before you can fumble it? You can't lose something you never had to begin with. The only way this is a penalty is if the rule actually states something about purposely batting a ball toward your EZ while in the act of recovering a fumble. Then you get into the question of intent, which is sometimes very difficult to prove. When the ball is on the ground bodies are flying everywhere and everyone is fighting for the ball, swinging at it, trying to keep the opponent from getting it, etc. Unless someone can produce an excerpt from the rule book with something to that effect then its hard for me to call that illegal. I still maintain that since Troy never had possession, there is no way it could be considered a fumble by him. It was a fumble recovery effort. If they would have thrown a flag on that ot would have been am absolute travesty.

 

I agree with the above statement. All the more reason I'm surprised it wasn't ruled a touchback with the pats having it first & 10 at the 20 for one last shot down the field. We're fortunate it was ruled a safety.

 

Knox I hear whay you're saying which is why I'm more inclined to agree with the opinion in Ravenhaters above post ie, an unsportsman like penalty if the refs felt he batted the ball intentionally versus the "Holly Roller" rule since as you said he didn't possess the ball initially. So..... maybe just a non-call on a different rule. Say what you want but it was pretty obvious by the replay that Troy was not trying to recover the ball but I don't know the rule book well enough to say if he got away with one there or not. My guess is we'll hear plenty this week from the talking heads on what the refs should or should not have done based on what the "official" rules say.

 

I don't think SImms is biased at all. He was all over the Steelers yesterday.