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Turtle Final Mock

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by turtle, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. turtle

    turtle

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    I'm going in early fellas...two weeks or so til draft night but most of the visits are done and I'm ready for the real thing.

    1. TJ Hockenson TE Iowa. TE coach was at Iowa's Pro Day and a lot of rumor they love Noah Fant. But I don't think you can pass up the all around skills of TJ. Heath Miller was at the combine, gathering intel??, there by coincidence?? :lolol: I don't know but I think he'll be BPA when its their turn.

    2. Ben Burr-Kirven LB Wash. A late riser for me. High motor, high effort, good character. Athletic enough for coverage, sheds blocks with the best of them, has a knack for FFs and good football IQ. Pre-draft visit.

    3A. Darnell Savage S Maryland. Speed and physicality. Needs to clean up his tackling and I'm usually the first to be turned off by that, but I'm hoping Bradley/Austin can clean that up like Davis improved last year. I like Amani Hooker here too, but Savage had a visit so I'll give him the nod. Pre-draft visit.

    3B. Michael Dieter OL Wisconsin. Versatile interior offensive lineman who had 50 something career starts at all 3 positions, T, C, and G. I think he moves inside. Give the newly promoted Sarrett a good prospect. Asst Coach Klemm at Wisc Pro day.

    4. Trade Miles Boykin WR Notre Dame. I think they move up in the 4th to get this crazy athletic WR. And he is a big target at 6'4 220. The tape shows a still developing WR so that pushes him to the 4th, but the physical upside is there. Just need to refine some things. Swap 4th round picks and give up their 5th. That would put them close to the top of the 4th. Pre-draft visit.

    6A. Steven Denmark CB Valdosta State. Huge corner and an ultra athlete. For some reason they are trying out the bigger corners a la Brian Allen. TBH, I based this off the pre-draft visit but he would be a STs add at the least.

    6B. Cody Thompson WR Toledo. Developmental WR who was a STs ace for the Rockets. WR Coach was at Pro Day.

    6C. Cole Tracy K LSU. I think they get a kicker at some point and Tracy is one of the top rated ones this year. Love the Wizard of Boz but last year was forgetful.

    7. Tyrel Dodson LB Texas A&M. Another developmental player who Colbert checked out at their Pro Day.

    UDFAs

    Darrin Hall RB Pitt
    Matt Sokol TE Michigan State
    John Keenoy OL Western Michigan
    Mitch Wishnowsky P Utah

    Jalen Dalton DE UNC
    Joe Dineen LB Kansas
    Ugo Amadi S Oregon
    Aaron Williams S Nebraska
     
  2. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Nice Job man I like how you started off but after round 4 it went down hill. I love a TE in the first and I have been reading/hearing a ton of good stuff about Kirven. I have mixd feelings a bout Savage and you can't go wrong with a Wisconsin lineman.

    As for Boykin I know some like this guy but I haven't seen much on him so I don't have an opinion. I am not sure about 2 WR's in the draft, I think we can find a good one as a FA after the draft. One name I love is Jesper Horsted from Princton, this guy don't drop anything and is a catching machine....keep an eye on him. I do not want a kicker drafted, we have a lot of money tied up in Boz and I don't want to waste a pick just to put pressure on him. IMO this draft is loaded and I would rather take a flyer on a position player, jmo.

    Nice job man don't feel like I am picking it apart I am just giving my opinion. I know when people put these out others like to pick it all apart. Good job. :thumbs_up:
     
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  3. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Hockenson won't make it to #20 IMO.
     
  4. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    I think it's 50/50.

    Typically only athletic freak TEs go in the top 15.

    Winslow, Ebron and Vernon Davis.

    OJ Howard was a stud coming out and went 19th.
     
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  5. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I think he'll be there at #20, and I think we'll pass him over for someone else and cause a lot of folks on this board to throw things at their TVs. I like him a lot, but like you say, he's not an athletic freak and TEs who aren't athletic freaks tend be picked outside of the Top 20 no matter how effective they are at the college level.
     
  6. turtle

    turtle

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    I will definitely be throwing things unless we get Christian Wilkins :lolol:. Heath Miller was picked at 30 so I see your point.
     
  7. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    We may see just how much pull Ben has in the organization because I think he will be advocating for a guy like Hockenson. Ben had so much respect for a guy like Heath Miller and I think Hockenson is in that mold.

    I personally still think we are taking a CB or Something at #20 if we stay there.

    If we move up I wouldn't be surprised if it was White or Bush.
     
  8. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Still not sure how I feel about it but I have a strong feeling that if Bush gets within 5 picks we are gonna be trying our best to make that move up for him.
     
  9. turtle

    turtle

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    Isn't he part owner now :lolol:

    Seriously though, I get what you and Elvis are saying about Hock at 20, he's not a Kelce type for sure. But if I'm KC I'm not going to quibble over 10 spots (in comparing H Miller at #30) when the team missed the playoffs with a pretty stacked team and there's talk in the media over KC and MT being in the hot seat. Media talk I get it, but they've heard it in the pressers I'm sure. I'm selecting a high character guy (also to offset this crazy offseason) who is one of the safer picks in the draft and we have a need there. He's a crock pot pick, put him in the line up and you're set for a long time.

    They drafted Burns and Edmunds in the first and Hock isn't value at 1:20? And yes he wasn't invited in for a visit but I think they are holding their cards a lot closer to the vest than in year's past. We've only heard of 1 dinner and that was with a second day guy. I don't think KC or MT need to see some scripted drills at pro day on a prospect like Hock or Fant for that matter. The TE coach was present and he will be the one working with them every day.

    I won't be mad if they pass him over for Murphy or probably even Baker, (I'm assuming Devins are gone) but if they pass him up for a WR or S I think they would be making a mistake, just because I don't see value at 1:20 for the players at those positions.
     
  10. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Asking because I don't know but how was Kittle evaluated? Was he projected that be that athletic? I know Hock isn't as athletic as Fant but who is the closest comparison? Sorry I don't follow other teams as closely but is Kittle a surprise athlete or was it a strength of his and how would Hock compare?
     
  11. turtle

    turtle

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    They are both pretty close in size, Hock is an 1" taller and slightly heavier, not much. Kittle was viewed to be good at both with better upside on his receiving skills than his blocking. He's a little better athletically. Kittle was projected for a late day 2/early day 3 pick.

    Comparing combine #s

    Kittle 4.52, 35 vert, 132 broad, 18 reps

    Hock 4.7, 37.5 vert, 123 broad, 17 reps, 7.02 3 cone

    Fant 4.5, 39.5 vert, 127 broad, 20 reps, 6.81 3 cone

    Threw in Fant also. And you can see he has the better numbers. Esp. the 3 cone for a guy 6'4 250. Maybe I picked the wrong Iowa TE :lolol:. I just like the more complete TE when we have a guy like Vance on the team. Vance is complete too and I know he stayed mostly healthy last year, but the injury thing sticks in the back of my mind. If we had no Vance and only Jesse James, give me Fant all day.
     
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  12. turtle

    turtle

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    According to Walter football, TJ Hockenson has not had a private visit with any team. He's not even listed on there for pro days meetings etc. Thought that was telling.
     
  13. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    1.Murphy
    2.Pratt
    3.Savage
    3.Boykins
    4.Moreau
    5.Snell
    6.Gilbert
    6.Mack
    7.kicker
     
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  14. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    It’s interesting. I strongly doubt that it’s indicative of a lack of interest. More likely a lack of any concerns. WYSIWYG.

    I read that Greedy Williams hasn’t had any visits either. That one is far more puzzling. He’s a great natural talent with deficiencies in his game (physicality) that teams may want to talk about before picking him early.
     
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  15. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Nice job, Turtle. I know most here are high on TJ but if they go TE in the first, hope its Fant. I don't know why his blocking gets such a bad knock, I think he does a decent job of it and has the tools to get better at it.

    Give me the more athletic TE.
     
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  16. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    The problem I see with Fant is drops. It's a consistent problem with him. Whereas Hockenson may have the best hands of any TE.
     
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  17. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I like it Turtle. although I feel the Steelers will do something different. Those are quality players
    you listed
     
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  18. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Blast, like SC NB said, it's also about the reliability of their hands. Here are some stats for the past 2 seasons:
    Hockenson 76 completion % on passes to him; 73 catches; 2 drops (one each season)
    Fant 60% completion % on passes to him; 69 catches; 11 drops

    Last year Hock had a ridiculous ratio of 49 catches to 1 drop. The big number that stands out in favor of Fant is 18 TDs vs. 9 over the past 2 years. He's easily the most explosive downfield receiver among the TEs in this draft.

    I agree with you that Fant's blocking has been overly criticized. I even did it early on when I was first watching tape of the TEs. He's not an effective inline blocker at all, but he is fairly effective blocking in space, even against LBs. He's not nearly as complete a blocker as Hock though.

    I'll say one thing though - in another thread you mentioned "dirty little draft secrets." I have been secretly hoping for Fant as our 1st rounder if a handful of other guys that I like are gone (Murphy, Bush, White, Burns, Hock). If used correctly he can be a great mismatch weapon in the passing game, and just good enough in run blocking from the H back spot to be effective, but he'd damn well better stop dropping passes. I guess it's not a secret any more....
     
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  19. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    This is why I am so high on Fant. I think you hit the nail on the head here, yeah Vance stayed healthy last year but I still worry about him. With Fant we would have a guy who still could be the big down field thread from the TE position and Ben likes that. jmo
     
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  20. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I agree but let me just say one thing when we first traded for Vance this was a knock on him as well. I remember people calling him stone hands and meat hands. :smiley1:
     
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  21. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Wow nice info,thanks. That 3 cone did stand out soon as I read it. That's pretty crazy for that size. In quite a few of the scouting reports I've read on Fant,his blocking is actually pretty good. They just say compared to Hock it isn't but that Hock is very good at blocking where Fant is just good. I'd be pretty happy with either one. I'm not looking to trade up for anyone in the first. I think the price is too steep. If given the choice I would trade back first. If we stay at 20 I would take either Iowa TE before a CB. JMO.
     
  22. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Bryon Murphy says no..........:roflmao::hehehe::shrug::shrug::shrug:
     
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  23. Mcgee

    Mcgee Active Member

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    With Jesse James out of the picture, and McDonald injury prone, a first round pick at TE is much more likely than not. TE is not a strong position in this draft and I think we all agree the Iowa TE's are the top two and only ones worth a first round pick. I personally like Fant better especially if McDonald stays healthy since in a two TE set he would be a nightmare to defend. We can pick up our ILB and a corner of value in round two. And don't forget Big Ben just might have some say with this one!
     
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  24. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Whether or not we should take a TE in the 1st, I think it’s very unlikely that we will. The TEs we’ve had in for visits are projected as mid rounders.
     
  25. turtle

    turtle

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    Exactly, that's what I was thinking. Normally they bring guys in if they have a question about something they see on film or in their overall study. Everyone looks at Hock's tape and are like, yep we're good...:lolol:

    I did read that on Greedy today and that was on the other spectrum for me. For the same reason you mentioned.

    But I wonder how much cloak n dagger plays into it. If a week or two goes by after the private visits start and no one has scheduled a visit with said player, a team who has legitimate intentions of taking him may not want to be the first and/or only one to seek a visit as it may tip their hand. And maybe I watch too many conspiracy theory shows. lol. Lets just say Tennessee's 28 visitor out of their 30 is Williams and that's his only team he visited. I wonder if other teams think its due diligence or signals a strong intent to pick. The nuances of the draft intrigue me....just thinking out loud
     

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