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Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by We need a change, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. We need a change

    We need a change Well-Known Member

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    There has been a lot of back and forth on here about what the team has done over the past several years. There is an article in the NFL site that considers them #5 on their list. They include some good stats to back up what they are saying. I’d say it’s about right, Seattle has gone to the dance twice and the Ravens won one. This season has been disappointing because of injuries but those are pretty good numbers what you consider that the past two years are figured into our numbers. We’ve had a lot more to cheer about than a lot of other teams.
     
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  2. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Marc Sessler is one of the few national Media people I listen to. He is one of the good guys. Browns fan or otherwise, he is very objective and honest with his opinions; something more Sports Writers should consider more time working on.



    In regards to the article though, keep in mind that while I myself am proud of this team given the circumstances this decade, there are some major gripes I do have that some long time members of this board have been stating for a while now. Most of the issues are internal and go to the coach. Take for example drafting players from 2015, 2016, and 2018 thus far. Of those three draft classes, possibly six of the 23 players drafted in those three seperate years are likely to stay with the team in the long term assuming all goes well for them; Bud Dupree, James Washington, Mason Rudolph, Chukwuma Okorafor, Jaylen Samuels and Marcus Allen being the incumbents here. Here in lies the issue; 17 misses. That is inexcusable; the two First Round picks doubly so. I am not stating every draft should be all hits but drafts like 2017 and 2019 (thus far anyway) are prime examples of what good drafts look like; what the team was doing back in the early portions of the decade.



    However, the drafting has not been my biggest issue this decade. Accountability has been. This is why I can understand the animosity some have with Coach Tomlin. The fact that Antonio Brown, excuse me, "Mr. Third and Fifth", somehow someway, inked a mega deal even though there were WARNING SIGNS beforehand amazes me to no end. This is even before accounting players like Martavis Bryant and Le'Veon Bell. However, the accountability does not end there.



    Lack of accountability extends to the coaches as well. I STILL want Keith Butler gone. Minkah Fitzpatrick SAVED HIS BUTT!! Without Minkah, Keith Butler would have been automatically jettisoned by now! Randy Fichtner I would LOVE to verbally PERMEATE but he is Big Ben's best friend so there is no point. Danny Smith falls under the same category although I have run out of rage and anger to type about him anyways.



    Overall, for me, this was both an awesome and upsetting decade for me. The whole "this team should have competed for a Super Bowl" stigma is often brought up the critical aspect has been ignored here. For that matter, the Pittsburgh Steelers, for the first time ever in the NFL Modern Era, have forsaken themselves. That level of arrogance is what cost us BIG TIME this decade.



    All that said, with the Organization now realizing their mistake and getting back to who and what the Pittsburgh Steelers stand for, I am more hopeful about the 2020s decade than this one. Yes, figuring out whether or not Mason Rudolph is the guy is going to be critical. However, what can be answered here is the Pittsburgh Steelers, no, Mike Tomlin, FINALLY is beginning to rediscover what it means to not just play "Steelers Football" but win the way that is "Steelers Football".
     
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  3. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    #5 in what?
     
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  4. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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  5. shaner82

    shaner82 Well-Known Member

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    Well in that case I don't see how the Eagles and Broncos aren't ahead of us They both have SB wins and over a 500 playoff record. We have neither. Sure, we have a hell of a regular season record, but other than a SB loss in 2010, we have nothing else. If the criteria is weighted equally between playoffs and regular season, then I can see why we're ahead. If an emphasis is placed on the playoffs and particularly the SB, then it makes no sense how we are ahead of the Broncos and Eagles.
     
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  6. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    Well said, but what evidence do you have to claim that the organization has realized its mistakes and that Tomlin has discovered anything. You actually stated that he rediscovered the meaning of Steelers Football. That would imply he knew what it was at one point. I have a hard time believing that.
     
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  7. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Cutting out the major problems Mike Tomlin allowed to mutate and grow into the locker room was the first step in accountability. Yes, those players should have been long gone but the fact that Tomlin did cut ties with them; obtaining their highest production doubly so no less, tells me that he is becoming more accountable again in terms of re-establishing a team oriented atmosphere. Continuing to add new talent that would not only be good additions for the team but team oriented and accountable, like T.J Watt and Devin Bush, was the next step. Finally, re-establishing stability, continuity and a team oriented focus in his newly built locker room being the last step; hence why we did not hear of any major distractions of note this entire season.



    Again, these are steps. As I said, Tomlin is beginning to rediscover what made those teams he coached in his early years great. It was not all talent alone; the major area where Tomlin and Colbert both goofed up this decade. Camaraderie, unity, accountability, discipline, sacrifice, desire and a team first attitude were the key reasons as to why those early Tomlin teams were so great. Sure, Ben in his prime and Dick LeBeau surely helped but those players were FAR CLOSER as a team than this decade's team EVER was.



    Football is the ultimate team sport as me and you both know. As such, to reach the ultimate prize, everyone has to compete as one. Tomlin had understood this when he was younger. Why it went so haywire is a question I honestly cannot answer. I can state this;



    For all of the chaos that the "Killer Bs Era" brought with it, I am glad it happened. Why I say this was a good thing for not just Tomlin and Colbert but also Art Rooney II is that sometimes we, as humans, can oversee the most integral aspects of life despite the warning signs of impending danger we are given early on. We ignore it, opting for only the positive aspects that this danger has with it; high risk/high reward as you would call it. Before this "Heart's n Smarts" initiative Kevin Colbert started back in 2015, Kevin's level of concern with character issues with players was the equivalent of the dirt on his shoes; none. Martavis Bryant was a prime example of Colbert's desire of talent over character. Now, granted, every GM does this. However, Kevin Colbert took this measure to new heights overall.




    Me and you know what the end result of the "Killer Bs" was. Well.... it is safe to say that this decade and experience will be one that neither Art Rooney II, Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin will EVER forget. Some risks simply are not worth taking.



    The "Killer Bs Era" directly affected the entire organization in a big way; one that ultimately brought all the aforementioned three's pride and ego back in check and most importantly; back to reality. Starting with Bud Dupree, the team went back to a team first mentality to drafting players; players who fit the "Heart's n Smarts" profile. Now, saying that, as I said, from 2015-2018, there have been plenty of misses along the way even when employing this draft strategy; First Round picks most notably. That said, and as foolish as this is going to sound, I would rather talk about how poorly, say, Terrell Edmunds has played on the field rather than having to discuss his actions off of it; thankfully none of major note.



    Overall, to me, Tomlin is getting back to that ideology of a team first locker room; the very same one he rode to Two Super Bowl appearances. Again, there is still much work to be done to get back to the big dance. That said, as we enter this drama free decade, I am looking forward to what the next generation can do! :)
     
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  8. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    Just in the Butler point:

    As I’ve said before, I think Tomlin was much more hands on this year with the D. Or Bradley is having more of a day at strategy level. Either way, I suspect Butler is in the process of getting managed down to LB coach. I don’t have much evidence for that other than piecing some reports together speculatively...
     
  9. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    The author outlined his criteria at the start of the article and a SB win is huge but it’s about consistency across the decade.

    Denver and Philly did win the big prize but they were pretty ordinary and even downright bad a lot of other years which cost them. Denver especially is not a better run team than the Steelers.
     
  10. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    Paper champions ... even with Ben. We couldn't get past NE
     
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  11. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you are in the picture of your avatar but if you're the guy in the middle that looks like a Giant jacket you have on????
     
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  12. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    2000-2010 = 10 playoff wins with 3 super bowl appearances and 2 wins


    2011-now
    3 playoff wins no SB appearences. Tomlin's legacy lol
     
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  13. We need a change

    We need a change Well-Known Member

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    I think that there are a lot of legitimate gripes with Tomlin and his entire staff. We haven’t enjoyed the success over the past 9 years that we would like to. But on the other hand, I think when we make comparisons, you have to look at the other coaches in the league and not prior Steelers coaches. Times change as do the challenges. You would not have seen players leave teams/contracts via social media. That was the catalyst for the Bell/Brown issues. Many other teams have experienced this as well. Most football coaches are not equipped to deal with this, and should not be. Coaches coach and the General Manager should manage. I seldom see the GM’s name appear when criticisms are made about the personnel issues. This is his lane, not the coach. If you went to hire a new coach and knew they would have the same coaching results as Tomlin, most teams would hire him in a heartbeat. Most accomplished coaches are on their second ride. Carroll, the cheat, and others took a couple try’s to be successful. Some were very good college coaches: Saban, Petrino and others. We just have to move forward and hope that the offense gets restocked and we can return to the playoffs.
     
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  14. sjromano

    sjromano Well-Known Member

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    BBH, now you know better than using hard facts around here.
     
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  15. bettissb40

    bettissb40 Well-Known Member

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    Well said but I firmly believe that the FO needs to get out of the 1933 thinking. To me that is a big issue with this franchise.
     
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  16. We need a change

    We need a change Well-Known Member

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    It really is, some indications of progress is the trading up for Bush and acquiring of Fitzpatrick. I think our backwards thinking caused a lot of the barriers on the Bell situation. The Brown issues were clearly nothing anyone could have controlled, the guy is gone.
     
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  17. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    My friend I was just in the supermarket and got the biggest kick out of a Cowboy fan telling two Eagle fans that his Cowgirls are set up to win the division for the next 4-5 years. Started to get heated and the old Steeler fan (me) who had to be 30 years older then them stepped in and told them to chill out.
     
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  18. We need a change

    We need a change Well-Known Member

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    Do you understand that accountability is an organizational issue and does not fall completely to the coach? Where is Colbert in your dissertation? Do you honestly think the coach could walk in and cut people or suspend personnel that are being paid millions of dollars by the ownership. You points are accurate if you rely on a superficial view of the organization. You may not have experience in large complex organizations but a person in Tomlin’s position is only going to take steps approved or directed my the GM or Ownership. What you see is the coach because he has the task of addressing things publically. You have to understand that most of these things including the draft picks are not the solo act of the HC. If you switch out head coaches, the new one will be just as accountable to the ownership as the last one is. I’ve issues with some of Tomlin’s on field decisions, I feel he has the power for on field decisions. Beyond that, you have to include all of the stakeholders in the personnel/accountability decisions. This isn’t your son’s youth team or a HS operation, these decisions involve millions of dollars and they are not made autocratically. It’s easy to blame Tomlin for everything, but it’s shallow and requires a very basic view.
     
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  19. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    both are trash lol
     
  20. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    For some reasons a few fans believe Tomlin is responsible for every decision within the organization. That's simple not the case. Tomlin probably makes his opinion and recommendations regarding players. Ultimately the collective group decides the direction of the team. Ownership probably has final say.
     
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  21. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Y’all keep missing something in regards to our draft picks(misses). These weren’t tomlin/Colbert picks these were AR2 picks. Colbert has never reached for a pick or drafted for need. Suddenly he starts doing exactly that? That’s AR2 doing his best Steinbrenner impersonation. Also we are victims of our own success. We haven’t drafted in the top half or top 10 of the draft in a decade or more. Usually teams fail for a season or two and get the blue chip prospects to rebuild. We haven’t had to suffer through that in a long long time. Y’all should count your blessings.
     
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  22. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    That's all extremely optimistic, and I wish I felt that way. But alas, I do not. IMO, Tomlin didn't cut out the cancers, they forced their way out. Hard for me to credit him with getting rid of malcontents who didn't want to be here. I also can't say that we have Watt and Bush because Tomlin wants to build a roster with an emphasis on character. And honestly, the distractions are few and far between because the two main causes of distraction and chaos bullied their way out the door.

    I know I'm probably being overly pessimistic here, but I just don't see the accountability and discovery that you do. If there really has been a philosophical and fundamental change within our HC and organization, it is going to take more than one lost season to see it bear fruit and be quantified. As of right now, we're the same team that employed both AB and Bell. We're just not having to deal with their shenanigans.
     
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  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I agree with this. I don't see how a guy struggling with one hat suddenly becomes more effective wearing multiple hats. If he did, great but I suspect the same as you.
     
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  24. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    That's Mike Tomlin's parents and me in the middle at my part time job at wal~mart ...lol ... this was Mike's first year with us. He had not even signed the contract yet.I told you all that I was from Va. Wow ... that pic seem like many moons ago. What was that '06 or '07. Wal~mart still wore vest (we called them smocks) back then. I got alot of gray now ... after watching steelers over the years
     
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  25. Jay31

    Jay31 Well-Known Member

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    2 out of those 3 Super bowls were coached by Mike Tomlin. And he won 1 out of those 2. I hope your factoring those things as well. Lol
     
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