Tomlin presser today some highlights…

Canada's offense isn't a dink and dunk offense. That was playcalls placaded to Ben's lack of confidence in the OL. The Chiefs called more plays from Canada's offense this past week than the Steelers did the entire season. They were running Fichtner's offense with some of Canada's wrinkles to it.

 

No I agree stability and continuity is important for any team in any sport. I guess my thought is that none of that matters with a coordinator who appears that “in over his head”

 

It wasn't my definition. Another poster asserted that Tomlin wanted a quarterback who would run more than he passed. I said that claim is foolish and it is not supported by the available evidence. I'm sorry you are having such trouble following the conversation. You should read more carefully before jumping in next time.

Roethlisberger's lack of mobility was an issue the last couple of seasons. I'm sorry you failed to see that. He was certainly mobile enough for most of his career. Once again, either you don't understand what is going on or you are intentionally misrepresenting things in service of your obsession with attacking Tomlin.

Tomlin is absolutely right to want a quarterback who is more mobile than Roethlisberger was this season. He had lost a great deal of the mobility he had through most of his career.

I've been critical of Dobbs from day one, but even I know mobility isn't his only attribute. He has tremendous arm strength and intelligence. That isn't a defense of the pick. He's just not a good quarterback.

 

Naw. You're misrepresenting Tiggs. He said Tomlin wants a QB who looks to run as much as he throws ie when the play breaks down the QB won't scramble and make reads downfield but is looking to run and for defenders that would stop him from running.

Josh Dobbs, who you are supporting as a 4th round pick due to his "arm strength and intelligence," absolutely looked to run if the designed play was broken. Dobbs looked to run first. If a defense was spying him because he was a running QB maybe he doesn't but he looks to run.

Tiggs was not saying some QBs run more than they pass. That isn't a thing AFAIK.

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Brady was 44 this year. He wasn't mobile at 24. How did the Bucs finish 2nd in scoring with 30.1 points per game?

How did the Bucs score 75 more points this year with a 44 year old QB who was never mobile than Ben's best season ever?

Why did Ben get better at QB as he became less mobile?

Why did Ben peak from 32-36 instead of in his late 20s if mobility is so crucial at QB?

 

Wrong again. Tiggs asserted that quarterbacks who are strong runners don't develop their ability to decipher defenses because they have the easier alternative of taking off with the ball. Young was one example of a quarterback who was a tremendous runner, but still developed every aspect of his game as a quarterback.

Pickett doesn't have the ability Young had as a runner, but I agree that he is the ideal type of quarterback. He is a passer first, but mobile enough to buy time and make a defense pay if they give him room to run. I agree that he won't be available. I don't think he will make it past Washington at the 11th pick.

 

See, now you are just flat-out lying. I'm not supporting Dobbs as a fourth-round pick. I made it very clear that I never liked that selection and I have been very critical of Dobbs over the years.

What I wrote was that mobility wasn't the only positive attribute Dobbs has. He does have a strong arm. He is very intelligent. It is inaccurate to say his only strength is mobility. That said, he simply isn't a good enough quarterback. He wasn't good enough in college to think he would be a good pro and he isn't a good pro.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Ben is not the first aging QB past his prime to play the game. There's been QB's similar to Ben and worse that played in SB's and even won. Why on earth MT decided to ignore the Line is beyond everyone and anyone who has any clue about football. The broncos did it perfectly with Elway.

2021 we used our first two picks on a RB and TE and 2020 on a WR and OLB. We made a trade to acquire Minkah. We picked up Schubert w/ a hefty salary. We signed Haden, Witherspoon, and Maulet. Even used a draft pick on a bad punter and signed the highest paid FB in the NFL that we don't use. (arguably the worst punter in the NFL btw). Those are not moves of a team looking to punt the season or do a rebuild. They thought it was more important to address those positions than anyone on the O-line. We spent a lot of $ elsewhere and totally ignored the O-line.

What did we do for the O-line the past two seasons? Signed Trai Turner to a one year deal and some old backups that probably wouldn't be on any roster otherwise. Reached for an undersized OG w/ short arms and made him a center and a used a late 4th on an OT .... drafted them both and made them starters immediately. No competition , just gave them the starting job and they both failed miserable. Tomlin fell in love with Green before the draft which just cracks me up as he couldn't have been more wrong about him playing center. Moronic. That is a not a plan to build a good O-line or a good running game. Lets not forget in 2020 we used a 3rd Rnd pick on a RB that doesn't play then the next draft used a #1 on a Rb. WTF is that? 2020 Drafted Banner in the 4th and also just assumed he would start. There were no good O-lineman available when we took Claypool and Highsmith? Edge rushers like Highsmith are a dime a dozen. There was a long list of FA WR's available every bit as good as Claypool. We couldn't have spent most of our FA $ on the O-line past two offseasons?

 

It also doesn't help the cause when QB'S like Jackson and Mahomes have a little bit of a punk streak in them so they run up the sideline, look like they are going out, then stay in and get a few more yards before stepping out and then give defenders that oh oh oh did you see what I did there? Which is why time to time you have to give them a shove before they step out.

 

100%. Running QBs look to run because they can, and they don't look downfield to pass while they're doing it.

If you can't see that Dobbs just took off running in college, and that the Steelers made a mistake in drafting him then you're just proving Tiggs' point.

The Steelers spent a 4th on Dobbs in 2017 and a 3rd on Rudolph in 2018. The Steelers knew that Dobbs wasn't going to be a starter in one year. How are you not admitting it was a bad pick on a "mobile QB."

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At least we agree on Pickett. It's very hard to tell which QB could be a top 10 player at the position but this year I think Pickett has the best shot.

It's hard to tell what "mobile" means in Tomlin's verbiage. He hasn't been explicit in defining that term.

QBs like Rodgers, Wilson and Burrow might use "mobility" when plays break down but the play call itself is not reliant on their mobility.

To design an offense around a QB being mobile means the offense does use a running QB. Otherwise they would just design the offense around a pocket QB and if the play breaks down great they can run.

To your point about Young those "west coast offenses" did require a mobile QB who can roll out and occasionally keep the ball on a draw etc. Montana was the same in terms of mobility behind the line of scrimmage.

Some of us believe that mobility will be necessary for the type of offense the Steelers will be running and we don't like it. Montana and Young had so many injuries. They weren't very big (mobile QBs usually aren't) and extending plays as often as they did gave defenders more time to get to them.

 

The Broncos also beat us with Peyton Manning on their way to a Super Bowl. Peyton had 9 TD 17 INT that season- he was way worse that year than 2021 Ben. I've never heard "Kubiak is one of the best coaches in the NFL."

McFarland is done- he's chained up in Tomlin's dog house somewhere. Yeah, I have no idea why the Steelers would draft a RB (other than he played at Maryland) in the late rounds. They draft a 3 down RB in the 1st or 2nd and he gets 80-90% of the snaps. Seems dumb to draft RB behind a dysfunctional OL. Mendenhall, Bell, Conner, Harris. It's the same strategy every year- draft a RB that can catch passes and block in the passing game.

It's all passing game... but with no OL. So the Steelers draft all these receivers to run slants, outs and occasionally go routes. No time for double moves or crossing routes with that OL anyways.

 

Yep. The rules to protect QB are getting abused. QBs never miss an opportunity to whine about the smallest contact to their helmet either. Hitting a QB in the helmet with a hand shoudn't be a penalty. It occurs incidentally when defenders swat at the ball.



Same thing with tackling a QB. Form tackling needs to be legal. Some of the most textbook hits are "roughing the passer."

 

I have said all along that the Steelers made a mistake drafting Dobbs. Please stop lying and implying otherwise.

Some running quarterbacks don't develop as passers because they are too quick to take off and run, but not all of them. That was my point. Tiggs tried arguing that none of them can do it, then he started writing about Steve Young, who did develop into a great passer even though he was always a tremendous runner.

I was going to repeat my condolences regarding your inability to follow the conversation properly, but now I just think you are trolling and lying.

 

Almost no running QB becomes a pocket passer.

Steve Young threw for 3900 yards and 33 TD in his last year at college. He already was a good passer.

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If you agree with me that the Steelers made a mistake in drafting Dobbs because they overvalued mobility then shouldn't we agree that drafting the next QB based on mobility is also a mistake?

 

I should add. Ben's arm is nowhere near as shot as Peyton that last year, or even Phillip Rivers his last year.

I just saw a video where Arthur Moats saying Ben could make all the throws in practice.

Brady can hardly be defined as "mobile."

If we had the slightest of a competent offensive line, and Canada was actually all in on Ben for this year, I think we have more success than what we saw this year.

 

Besides Kordell Steelers had another quarterback who liked to take off running and never developed as a passer. Cliff Stoudt. Steve Young, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Hebert, Aaron Rodgers….all are very good passers who extend plays by moving around.

There were some running qb’s in college that transitioned into a different position in nfl..Hines Ward, Randle El etc. Those kind of QB’s don’t do well in nfl as they are not consistently accurate. They take a big hit and they are never the same. There was a Washington qb, Robert Griffin who looked great the first year he started, then got hurt and never the same. I would love to have a Mahomes or Josh Allen. To me those are passers who are mobile.

 

You know in watching Mahomes early games this season the thing that jumped out at me was that he was falling prey to the same media spin that messed with Kordell's head. This thing were no matter how talented and unique a QB you are and can run and create and throw on the run it comes back to this belief that you have less value because you aren't sitting in the pocket, delivering the ball, while taking a hit. I saw it with Mahomes where he was just sitting in the pocket looking all over on plays where he used to take off and then sling it off his back foot.

 

Who would you take?

The Steelers drafted Dobbs based on his mobility and got a bust.

The Steelers ignored Rudolph's immobility and got a long term backup.

 

Young was a good runner before his last year at BYU, too. He wasn't a great passer at first in the NFL, but he refined his game even though he was able to make plays with his leg.

I agree that they made a mistake in drafting Dobbs. I don't know that the reason they took him was putting too much value on mobility. I think they were assuming that even though he wasn't particularly good in college, he would eventually figure it out because he has a strong arm, he is athletic, and he has demonstrated his intelligence academically.

I never disputed that drafting the next quarterback based solely on mobility would be a mistake. I don't like the idea of them taking Willis, who has the mobility, but not the accuracy. I do dispute the claim that the Steelers are going to draft a guy just because he is mobile. I don't think they should use a first-round pick on a quarterback at all because the only one I think is worth taking in the first is Pickett and I just don't see him lasting that long.

 

These discussions would be a lot more productive if you stopped pushing that false premise regarding the drafting of Dobbs.

 

I don't get it why was a Dobbs a bust? A 4th round pick, he was drafted to be a backup, nobody thought he was drafted to replace Ben as the starter.

We were able to trade him away 2 years later for a 5th round pick when he was beat out of the backup job by Mason. Mason was drafted to be a potential starter with Ben's retirement.

 

Allen is a running quarterback. The Bills still use him on designed runs quite a bit. His rookie year, he struggled as a passer, but he was very effective running the ball. He put in the work to become an outstanding passer.

 

And Ben ran a 4.75 40 according to Pro Football Reference. That's the same as Allen and 0.05 faster than Mahomes.

These guys being called "mobile" like Herbert and Mahomes aren't any faster than Ben was.

And good luck to any QB who wants to come try and extend plays behind this OL.