Timmons Hit on Sanchez

If he keeps his head up it's probably not called.

If he keeps his head up and his facemask hits Sanchez's head, it's Timmons helmet that will be pushed back and Sanchez's head does not snap.

 

I'm willing to bet that the flag would have still been thrown if Timmons hit Sanchez's helmet with his facemask. It's still H2H contact.

 

Lol! It's still H2H don't matter what part it is right? Weaksauce! If the rule is no H2H no matter what that's fine. I just think the rule is dumb not Timmons.

 

As far as i'm concerned, once sanchez left the tackle box he became a running back, I doubt that flag would have been thrown if tebow had made that a play, there are 2 different sets of rules for pocket passers and scramblers: Ben had his nose broke from a helmet hit, in the pocket by the way, and there was no penalty flag thrown, like I said, there are 2 sets of rules: The Steelers tried to get the horse collar rule changed by the rules committee because it's not a foul if a QB gets horse collored in the pocket, the steelers wanted it changed because Ben has been horse collored multiple times in the pocket and they worried he might eventually get injured, the rules committee didnt change the rule, so what are they saying it wont get changed untill someone like Ben gets injured...

 

You're right about that. I believe the Steelers are the legitimate victims of double standards when it comes to anything "violent." Big hits on receivers, QBs, whatever. It could be something that was clean under the old and new rules, but we'll still draw a flag. Meanwhile our QB gets flat out punched in the face or slapped in the head, and nothing. But there is that other kind of discrimination, against running or tough QBs. Like their safety just doesn't matter. Ben, Vick, Joe Webb (remember that? wow), etc. Tebow might be included, but he's sort of a special case because he gets so much attention. God knows they were in his corner when James Harrison tapped him at half speed. It's like they go, "Hmm, that was a pretty bad facemask, but... eh, he can handle it."

 

So when does a QB become a RB? When he leaves the pocket? When he crosses the line of scrimmage? When he looks like he is going to run?

The only facts are that Timmons hit him H2H and a defensive player cannot hit a QB H2H. This has nothing to do with Ben getting his nose broken or the horsecollar rule.

 

Ah, hello? Did I say it wasn't H2H?

What Im saying is that what draws the flag is Timmons dropping his head just before impact (which is what the NFL is trying to change) and striking Sanchez's helmet causing his head to snap sideways (even if it is the 2nd thing to hit). They are the two visually obvious things to happen in a bang-bang play. Had he kept his head up like you were supposed to Sanchez's head does not snap to the side as more than likely Timmons helmet collapses in toward his face and Sanchez's head does not snap sideways and the refs don't throw the flag. I could be wrong, maybe he still gets flagged. I just don't think that he does since the two things that drew the flag are absent in that scenario.

And during the course to typing this I went back and watched the YouTube clip again and it is CLEAR that Timmons LOWERED helmet IS the first thing to strike Sanchez's head at the :53 second mark. I really don't know how this is debatable by anyone unless you are a blind man. We can argue the merits of the rules until we're blue in the face, but it IS the rule and Timmons clearly violates it.

 

I think the NFL front office interpretation has changed. Even if Sanchez ducks and it is an accidental head to head hit: it doesn't matter, it still is penalty. It stinks, but that is the way it is now....

 

Exactly.

Especially when the defender lowers his head as he makes the tackle.

 

O.K., Biz, I get your point.
But, I don`t agree with you...
MAYBE, because these guys are highly trained, highly paid, PROFESSIONAL athletes, they can ignore the rules of physics, or self-preservation?!?
I ain`t buyin it.
As someone else pointed out earlier(maybe you, maybe not, I forget the exact source)...
If he had kept HIS head up... HIS head is the one that would have been snapped backwards.
Sure, you can try to keep your head up, at the point of contact, but that usually means your head is the one that`s going to get bent backwards...
Isn`t that why qb`s, wr`s, or rb`s, "duck", to preserve themselves?
To me, It just simply goes back to looking at the human body...It is VERY difficult(not impossible, but VERY difficult), to lead with your shoulder, without "leading with your head"....
If you are leaning forward, nine times outta ten.. Your head is gonna be leading the way.(Unless you have started a somersault, or something)
Maybe these highly skilled athletes have been trained to avoid that, but, I doubt it.
In the martial arts, they pretty much train you to control the head, because, wherever it is going, the body has to follow...
Same principle, but backwards... If you are gonna make a "textbook tackle"(with your shoulder in their gut, and your arms wrapped behind their knees)...
You are going in HEADFIRST!!!
And it may not be impossible, to keep your head parallel to the ground(looking forward), while you do it, but it is one HELL of a lot easier, on your neck, to be looking down at the ground, while you bury your shoulder in their midsection!!!
I guess all these defensive players are supposed to not only un-learn, everything they have been taught all their lives, but, to also, defy the laws of physics.... :bs:

 

There are a hell of a lot more non-fined hits than there are fined hits so I guess there are a lot of players who are defying the laws of physics.

 

Ok, Smart aleck... Fined, or Flagged... either way, does that mean every other hit is perfect, or the ref`s (replacement, or not), are missing some calls?
I`m not sure if Timmons was fined, or not, but if he was, it`s a crock, to me...
Edit... And do ya think, maybe some of those other 70% or more of tackles, did not involve debating whether it was helmet to to helmet, or not?

 

I'm not being a smart aleck, just making a point.

I never said all of the other tackles are perfect. There are dozens of tackles that don't draw flags or fines and I'm sure that the refs miss some that should be flagged or fined but some people make it sound like it impossible to tackle according to the "new" rules. It's done in every game, every week including in Steelers games.

 

Fair enough...
Most tackles are made without drawing a flag, or creating debate.
Unfortunately, It seems like every time one of our players makes a hard hit, it gets put on ESPN, and starts a buncha debate.
Once in a while, another team will have a hit like that. Just seems that the media likes to focus on ours.
No biggie... I couldn`t care less what the talking heads have to say about it.
I just think it`s kinda strange that our own fan base, who have grown up on, or at least, root for a team that made its name, by being a hard hitting team, call these type of hits into question.
Sure, the rules have changed, but, so far.... Rodger hasn`t said "Don`t hit the other player too hard"...
Even if that was what it looked like, when the ref`s threw a flag on "Taylor", when Clark, delivered a perfectly clean, but,
punishing hit on the Jet`s reciever.
And, Just so I`m not misunderstood, I DO get the point, that we don`t wanna hurt ourselves, with personal fouls. We DO need to adapt to the "New NFL"... but, that doesn`t mean we shouldn`t do whatever we can, within the rules to try and "hurt"(Thanks James... "Hurt", not "injure"), the opponent...
Ryan Clark has done a beautiful job of this, IMO, but, he STILL gets fined/flagged, for trying to do his job within the rules...'
THAT is the type of thing that ticks me off...
GO STEELERS!!!

 

This is a lot of debate over something very simple. Their noggins connected! It certainly didn't look intentional as he did LOWER HIS HEAD as some would argue but seem to ignore that he lowered his head AT AN ANGLE to get it out in front of Sanchez which is what you are taught to do from a young age. Good grief...keep his head up, keep his head down...does it matter? If you really want to argue the point you need to look at studies on human nature. It is not human nature to go full speed at an object and keep your face up as you do it. Your body happens to be smarter than you and it has a habit of protecting your face. But, in the end, doesn't really matter because their noggins connected and it got called. It was not a dirty play and to try and stretch it as one is pretty sad when you can probably look at that same play and find other players on the field engaged in actual and intentional dirty play, i.e. holding. In addition, those of you that want to speculate on what ifs because of this play should probably remember that there were other 15 yard penalties committed by the Steelers. I don't hear those being mentioned as "what ifs". To do so is unfair because all calls are part of the game. When is the last time a team went the entire game without a penalty? Bottom line... good play bad and unfortunate result.

 

Isn't that like trying to keep your eyes open when you sneeze? I would think that's a good way to break your own neck

 

Through all this debate about what is the right way to tackle, some of you guys have me second-guessing what I was taught in terms of "textbook tacking" and what I taught my son and his teammates during peewee football years. So, I did a quick internet search on what a textbook tackle looks like and this is what came up - anyone agree? Would you levy a fine for this tackle or give out a bonus?

 

look at the ref in the background. :gasp:

 

What ref in the background.... there's a ref in the background?

 

The LFL is the fastest growing sports league in the Nation, I wonder why that is, wink wink;
http://www.mtv.com/shows/lfl/series.jhtml

 

Thats NOT a textbook tackle. A girl can blow out a knee getting tackled like that.

"Personal foul, Beaver Collar. Defense number 38D. 15 yard penalty, automatic first down."

 

Timmons was fined $21,000 for the hit.

 

is this considered fantasy football?

 

21k is a bit much when you can see he's turning his head away and going shoulder first with the left hand contacting the shoulder of Dirty S first.