Timmons Hit on Sanchez

oops.. Sorry Diamond. An oversight on my part.

I dont know that qualifies in the case of timmons hit because it might fall into the category of being incidental however I don't see where in the case given in the example where the helmet first hits the shoulder pads and moves to the helmet area

Bman

 

3 plays later Mundy Hit H2H on Shonn Greene from which he did not return to the game. Why is that the the QB is more protected than a RB or a TE or a DE or a FS or a RT. They all players on the field and have heads in helmets that are subject to the same concussion symptoms. I know they are trying to get away from a Junior Seau situation and in the end you probably have to treat every player the same in order to avoid future lawsuits.
The offensive players are just as guilty as the defensive guys when they lower their heads to brace for a tackle. This exactly what happened in the Mundy / Shonn Greene hit. No flag but will he receive a fine for the hit? My money says yes.

 

No, of course he won't. When a player is a runner (and that includes the QB past the line of scrimmage) helmet to helmet hits are perfectly legal. You can talk about the fairness of the rules all day long, but the fact is what Timmons did is against the rules, it cost us 15 yards and a 1st down and he'll likely get fined. If that same hit happened on Ben, we'd all be screaming for a flag and fine.

 

For those saying it was worth the penalty... how would you feel if someone hit Ben like that?

 

I dont think we were talking about feelings ScottChab but rather risk and reward. The hit was not intentional if you ask me so if its incidental should Timmons be fined?

Sanchez himself said the hit did not phase him ..

Bman

 

That was not a fineable hit because he hit with his shoulder BUT because his head was down he'll be fined..... sad really to the state the NFL has become. I would love to be in Jack Lamberts living room watching a Steeler game with him, ear plugs a must!!!

I find it interesting how many fans are calling it a fineable hit and how dumb it was and such a bad play. Its Professional Football played by large fast men who...like to HIT and like to impose their will on others..... its not flag football.

Cajun-

 

I'd be surprised if Jack Lambert even watches todays NFL.

 

I don't think it was intentional.....You do see Sanchez drop into it.

I do think it was a penalty....any helmet to helmet is called (or is supposed to be) and Helmets clearly hit.

I do not think it should be called that way.....you are always taught...see what you hit...put your face right between his numbers...if not for the drop I think Timmons face mask would have planted itself right in the QB's upper chest.....but rules are rules.

What would I think if it happened to Ben...I would be just as upset as I am sure the Jets were.....and I am sure the other team would be just as happy if Ben came out and played horrible after the hit.

HACK

 

My point is that some people say the hit was ok but they would probably be calling for someone's head if it happened to Ben.

 

I wish he had hit Manning like that in game one.

 

I'm not sure what you were trying to point out there Mac? I saw in the definition where it said "incidental or not" it's a penalty. And I've seen refs pick up flags before, even the real refs after a discussion realizing no foul had occurred.[/quote:oomo6fqk]

under the penalty phase. helmet to helmet contact does not always mandate a penalty.

 

O.K.......
I TRIED to stay out of this, because most of what I think about it has already been said...
I DON`T think it was an intentional "dirty hit"(i.e. helmet to helmet)...
So, how can you ask if it was "worth it"??? (To get into the qb`s head)?
IF it was.... I STILL wouldn`t have a problem with it... I understand the rules are the rules now, and we will get 15 yards for it, but I LIKE to see us intimidate an opponent... It is VERY hard to do, in today`s game...
Clark is pretty Damn good at it, but he will still get calls against him.
I believe Silverback has made an effort to change and still hit hard, but hard to talk about him right now.
Some of his hits last year were perfectly clean, to me, but he still got called. (NOT the one on McCoy. THAT was intimidation, plain, and simple.) I won`t try to defend that one, no matter the excuse about McCoy "ducking his head".
That may be a good "politically correct" answer, to avoid getting in trouble, but, I don`t doubt his intention on it, or think he was wrong for doing it.
What I do have a problem with, is hits like this one, with Timmons on Sanchez...
Knox, I appreciate your point, about "keeping your head up", so that the defender hits with the facemask, instead of the "crown" of the helmet, but still... Really?!?... When the defender is leaning forward, basically leaving their feet, but STILL leading with the shoulder... the head is going to be looking downwards. They have already commited to their "aiming point"...
Good form? No.... But ask Troy about form.... Or half of the players that want to get knockout hits for the highlight reel, instead of putting a shoulder in the belly, and wrapping the legs(actually, THAT is a good example, too, of a proper way to make a tackle, where you are gonna be looking towards the ground, while aiming with the shoulder, not the head...)...
Anyhow...
The part that everyone is gonna hate me for is this...
Why can Trent Richardson(or whatever that rookie`s name from the Clowns is...), Knock the helmet off the Eagles defender, WITH A HELMET TO HELMET hit, and everybody is saying what a great run it was?!?1, He knocked the crap outta him!, Knocked his helmet clean off!!! Great job, runningback!!!...
Wait... What??? Isn`t that helmet to helmet?... He lowered his head, and targeted the defenders HEAD.... Not belly, or leg, or shoulder, but, intentionally turned his helmet into a battering ram, aimed at the defender`s head, and that`s ok??????
Yeah, I know it is... Just like he could grab his facemask, with a "stiff arm", and not get penalized... It is what it is...
And that`s why I didn`t even wanna bring this up... "Wah, wah, wah... It`s not FAIR..."...
That ain`t what I`m tryin to say.
What I`m tryin to say, is, it`s football.
They signed up for it.
Let `em play it!!!!!!!!

 

Agree!

 

Penalty? Yes. Intentionally dirty? No. It has a lot of similarities to the Harrison/McCoy hit. Sanchez was fair game for a big it, as long as it wasn't helmet to helmet. It was. But he didn't seek out his helmet. He did lower his head, but he also actually moved his head to the side a little bit, away from Mark's. Like McCoy, Sanchez instinctively lowers his head a bit to brace for impact. QBs who want to play the "I'm gonna run I'm gonna run I'm gonna run I'm gonna run Pass!" game are apparently entitled to their 15 yards if they get clocked in the head, but they have to realize they are setting themselves up for that. That's like playing chicken on the train tracks. This is a perfect example of something that just happens. It's a penalty in today's game, and while that can be unfortunate, I'm okay with it as long as it's called evenly among all teams. I don't think it should be a fine though, since it's a non-malicious football hit.

If it had happened to Ben, I'd be screaming for a flag. We aren't getting any slack in this department, so I wouldn't want to see another team get some. And I'd be satisfied with a flag. I wouldn't need a fine or anything else. Timmons probably will be fined because intent has nothing to do with the fine system, as we've learned. The league would rather he hit him 5 seconds late, while screaming out loud "I'M COMING TO INTENTIONALLY HURT YOU NOW" but not in the head. Make an honest play on the ball but get a little unlucky... that's much worse. It will be wrong, but it will happen.

 

Was it helmet to helmet? Looked like it was shoulder to helmet when I saw it on the tube but I thought they were penalizing it as a personal, late, and/or to the head foul. Not H2H. THe videos here show it as the shoulder too, to me.

What if it happened to Ben? You mean it hasn't already? I mean he could get a broken nose or concussion or something and we don't want that to happen, right?

This was a fine upstanding play and deserves and gets the Dobre Shunka "play of the week" award!

 

I think his helmet hit Sanchez's facemask first, then slid off and his shoulder hit him next. You can see it on the final replay. I don't think it was malicious and it certainly wasn't brutal, but it was helmet to helmet. Plus, with the rules these days, it would still be a 15 yard penalty even if it was just his shoulder. The timing was fine though.

 

You can lead with your shoulder and still keep your head up.

And you may have a valid point with the RBs being able to lower their heads and hit H2H without penalty, but that's irrelevant here. Bringing it up only clouds the discussion and distracts from the real topic.

 

Much like everyone is defending Timmons by talking about the speed of the game, the referees also have to make a decision under the same circumstances. They don't have the benefit of YouTube on Monday to see what impacted first. And at game speed, standing down on the field, they see Timmons lower is head and Sanchez's head snap sideways. Yes maybe upon closer inspection his shoulder contacts first then his head hit Sanchez's head. But what is absolutely clear is that Timmons drops his head just before impact and Sanchez's had snaps.

All if this could have been prevented if Timmons had just kept his head up like you are supposed to.

 

Unfortunatley this is the NFL world we live in,
It is not going to get any better either, the blood sucking lawyers
are already on the trail. Don't sign on the dotted line if you are afraid of
the repercussions. Its really that simple.

 

So if he keeps his head up then he hits him with his facemask. Is that not still H2H?