there are deeper problems then whats on the surface

at this rate we could very well find soon which direction we are taking , if we draft at the top would you take a qb ?
bridgwater ..?

 

I do think it's more timing oriented though as would cater more to brady or manning's stregnths, not bens. that's not what he does well.

the running part of Haley's system has no plan. or the running plays are poorly designed for our power running backs. and then not use a FB? why?

 

It would depend on the QB available to us. If Manzell is available to us, then yes, we take him and we dump Ben. Then we try to get a stud WR for him to throw to. Brown is anything but a #1 WR

 

There is no possible way the Rooney's take him at qb. I don't watch college football but I've heard enough negative news about this guy and his character issues that I say the Rooney's wouldn't touch him.

 

manzell ? i'm curious to see where he will be picked , some team are scared about his offield issues

 

This is such a misconception about the Steelers. The Steelers have drafted many players with character concerns. If the talent is there, the character concerns will be ignored. If he was available to us, he would be drafted by us. It won't matter because we won't have a high enough pick to take him.

 

It's too early to draft the quarterback of the future. Ben has at least 4 years left if not more. By that time the rookie quarterback contract will be up. I think we continue to build around Ben. Starting with LEFT TACKLE and a BIG WIDE RECEIVER (Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green type).

 

Ben is awful this year. He might not even be the answer today, let alone for the next 4 years. He has in the past relied on his athleticism to make plays. He can't do that as well anymore. He needs to stand in the pocket and throw accurate passes. If he can't do that, then it's time to cut bait now, not watch him struggle for 4 more years.

 

johnny football will be a 3rd string backup in the NFL!
Why would you ever think he will be a 1st round pick? He has seriously inflated numbers because he passes every play. Don't buy the hype on him, and NO the Steelers won't be taking him and cutting Ben

 

LOL! And we know this after a handful of series in the preseason. Geez! If it were up to you guys Terry Bradshaw would have never led the Steelers to 4 Super Bowls because he would have been released after he started his career so poorly and Tom Brady would have been cut after his first preseason because he OBVIOUSLY wasn't good enough. Not comparing Jones to either one of those guys but give him an opportunity for crying out loud!

 

I going to throw this out for discussion and see what sticks. Does it occur to anyone other than me that Haley is giving Ben what he wants? Ben want to have a hand in creating the playbook and so he got it. He wanted to have the play terminology the way he was used to and he got. He wanted to go no huddle more and have more freedom to call his own plays from it and he got plenty of that last night. He wanted more vertical routes and less dink and dunk and got that along with some safety valve plays that he completely disregarded. Some of you are making it sound like Haley is nailing Ben' feet to the turf and forcing his playbook down Ben's throat. Yes there were some bone head play calls and head scratchers that Haley called which I am tick off about as well but the vast majority of the play calls were things Ben wants and likes, such as multiple WR's and one back looks, no lead blocker on running plays, a bunch of vertical throws.

In regards to Mac's post I think that Haley was brought in to put a system in place to teach the young guys to play fundamental football. One of the biggest knocks on Wallace from people on the board was he runs sloppy routes and doesn't fight for the ball. Couple that with ball security for all the WR's and RB's and you have a snapshot of BA's last season into Haley's first. Under Arians who cares if they ran sloppy routes, Ben is at his best when he is moving and shaking(or so the claim is made) and they spend more time on scramble drills in practice than they do on running crisp routes, looking the ball into their hands, going up and catching it at its highest point, fighting for the ball. Haley comes in and puts a system in place that forces a player to learn and to learn correctly(I hope) but it doesn't play to Ben's skill set, although it should one of the best plays was when he stood in the pocket and delivered a strike to Sanders. So yes I think they are planning for LABB

 

No, awful describes it perfectly. The guy overthrew everybody. Even some of his completions were high.

 

For all the talk about Ben not fitting in the system, we should all remember that the Steelers get off to a 6-3 start last season and up until the injury against KC where Ben was doing his Ben routine and getting hurt while holding onto the ball too long. During that 6-3 stint, was doing quite well with the short passing game and going to quick reads. Also this thought that Ben never has been able to do quick reads get the ball out, etc. is nonsense - there have been games in the past where he has done this. The last win against NE at home was largely set up w/quick pop passes to Miller and Brown. The game where they beat SD 11-10 Ben was completing 7-8 yard passes all day long.

Someone above made a very good point that you really can't make those short passes when the secondary is playing more press coverage because they know your line can't hold a block more than 2 seconds. The thing that gets me and it seems apparent in this offense whether it is Haley or Arians is the complete lack of plays that help offset a pass rush. I can't remember the last time the Steelers really executed a well-designed screen play to their back. Felix Jones would seem like an ideal candidate for that, I always thought Mendenhall could have been an ideal receiving back if it was coached. How about some bootlegs or waggles, something that may allow Ben to get out in space. I've always thought Ben is pretty good in the pocket, but he is awesome outside of it. I was reading SteelerDepot today and it is like the offense is now a 180 of what it was last year. Last year it was dink and dunk, this year it is chuck the ball downfield for 20 yard routes. So whether it is Arians (who I admit I wanted ousted) or Haley, the one constant is Ben, and it just seems for the last 6 years the Steelers have never really been able to develop any kind of rhythm or identity to their offense. It's almost like Ben can do it if he has to, but he still likes to largely make it up as he goes along. When it works, you just shake your head and say "how did that happen" and when it doesn't it looks really bad and .... well you really shake your head then as well.

 

I agree Ben didn't look good, but St. Brady didn't exactly light it up against the Jets the other night either. I think his QB rating may have been lower then Ben's. To be fair to Brady his young bucks at WR had like 5-6 drops, but he was sailing passes long and wide as well - and he actually had his normal "I have time for a martini" time in the pocket that he often has. So I think things have to be put in context, I think TTF is right - awful is an exaggeration.

 

I agree. I'm sick of us leaving talented players on the bench in the name of "developing" them. The fact is that college is becoming more and more of an intricate system of football. These guys are getting coached up at high levels and a lot of them are coming in and making big plays for other franchises. I also think the Rooney's notice this as well. Andrew Luck was in the playoffs last year. We weren't. RG3 was in the playoffs last year. We weren't. Russell Wilson was in the playoffs last year. We weren't. Andy Dalton was in the playoffs last year. We weren't. Colin Kaepernick was in the SUPER BOWL last year. We weren't. It is time to let these guys play and see what they can do. Period. Have we forgotten the impact Ben had as a rookie? I'm not talking about giving those guys all the freedom in the world but if teams watch the film from last night they will know that Wheaton is nothing more than a decoy because he was never targeted. Crap like that makes our offense incredibly predictable and we can't afford ANY more problems than we already have.

 

I agree that Haley is taking more shots downfield this year. The very first play of the season was a deep out to EZ and we've had the same deep routes thrown to Cotch and AB. Last night we really pretty much abandoned the run. Obviously our line isn't good at run blocking but the point is that we're going downfield more but we don't have the personnel to execute. I don't think Haley and Ben like each other and I think that Haley's system is probably a little too base. BUT if the players would actually execute it even a LITTLE we would be looking much better. We have lots of blame to spread around. The line has Ben a little shaken. The lack of a run game keeps opposing D's able to just tee off on Ben. The lack of execution has kept our d on the field for 68 minutes. It's not ALL on Haley but he does call some REALLY short routes that keep us in 3rd and long situations.

 

Maybe Haley has simplified his system a bit? His claim to fame was the Cardinals 2008 season when Kurt Warner threw for 4583 yards and 30 TD'S. Warner was a quick read and throw QB that fit the system well but Ben isn't. Oil and water really and I can't see how the Steelers ever thought it would work well.

 

Poor player evaluation has doomed the Steelers to what you see today on the field. I would get rid of Todd Haley immediatley,I think there is a total personality clash between him and #7.When you have lesser talent they must be disciplined, and penalty free/fundamentally sound.(COACH T) I ask who is buying the groceries for this organization? Is it Colbert/ Tomlin? Is it our scouts who are passing the info to these guys? We have no one on our roster from the 2008 draft, people you cannot MISS on player evaluation. this is why
you see the product you are seeing on the field this early in the season. My God who was responsible for Gilbert? You also got to ask are we getting the bang for our buck that we have paid our superstars? Ben, Woodley, Troy, Timmons, AB, Heath, IKE,Kiesel you have alot of money tied up in these individuals. I believe that you will see alot of the players I mentioned above not on the roster next year.They have all been good players for this organization, unfortunatley they are not producing on the level that they are being paid. Ben R. (had) so much physical ability and got by on that, his skills are eroding(TOO many HITS) I believe he has 3 years left on his current contract. I am not so sure he will make it that far. I am not a cap man, TTF is far more knowledgable about this, but big changes are in the wind. I have said in other posts that the Steelers need to sit down and take a good look at their operation and go from there. THE STEELERS ARE HARD TO WATCH.

 

I'm not sure I could agree and disagree with a thread more than this one. Obviously, things need to be fixed. There is definitely some clean-up on the coaches part. If someone can argue that point, please, post away. Calling Ben awful, talking about lossing his athleticism and constantly overthrowing people might be a wee bit off. I thought he looked more athletic than he did last year and, in watching the game, he had to be. Even the announcers were talking about how tough he is and how hard he is to take down. Overthrowing receivers, I believe the great Brady or Manning would do the same if they had about 2 seconds to throw the ball. Used to be Ben took sacks because he held the ball too long. You can argue that all day but it really is true. Not the case this season, so far. He has to be looking to throw as soon as the ball is placed by the official. I will say I have not given up on this team as a few seem to have. No, I'm not questioning anyones fandom either. I know most of you on here long enough to know you are die hard and, as I've said before, one of the reasons I stick around. I'll give up this season when we accumulate 6 losses because that is when I believe we are probably out of it. The AFC north is going to be gritty and ugly this year and, for the time being, we are still in the hunt.