The Untouchable Big Ben

the point was, that you obviously missed is, during the 80' and 90's there were also 52 other players on the team along with what ever qb you would like to insert and those teams couldnt get it done. Ben comes along and they are once again a perennial super bowl team with 2 more trophies in their case.

of course Ben should be held accountable for his mistakes, but lets not forget the main reason this team is a legitimate super bowl contender every year. again, during the 80's and 90's they had some pretty awesome defenses, but that wasnt enough to win super bowls.

 

In the Patriots last SB appearance, they lost to the Giants. Arguably (pretty easily) Brady > E.Manning... and yet the Giants won that SB. QB factor neutralized. It ain't all the QB.

 

Great points. Is Ben the best ever? Nope, but I would rather have him at Q.B. than Kordell, Kent Graham,Scott Campbell, Todd Blackledge, "He who isn't worth mentioning" etc. etc.

 

oh i remember. seeing how i've watched this team since the mid 60's. at least thats my earliest memory of going to see them. it takes a whole team to do it , bottom line. the qb can't do it without the rest of them no matter who he is. i was at the games in the 70's also and terry couldn't do it without the rest of them. ben can't either.

 

Ben isn't untouchable in my books. In fact, I don't even like him as a player. If we had a really good BU that was capable of stepping in and putting up good numbers, I would love to see Ben traded for cut. I don't like him and I think he hurts our team far too often. Yeah, he wins, but half his wins are a result of a great defence. Look at his first SB win, he had the worst QB rating of any winning SB QB. Sure, he's talented, but his dumb mistakes happen too often and he's too selfish. I have never cared much for him and never will, although I will continue to cheer for him until he's replaced, because he's on the Steelers.

 

Hire Cowher back and FIRE him for bringing this guy to the team,he sucks we should have picked up Rivers instead!!! :roll: :roll:

 

No offense, but the angry mob picture is inappropriate in this case. Shaner is one of the lone voices expressing a strong opinion against Roethlisbeger.

 

This has gotten hilarious!

Look, Ben just needs to tighten up... just like all the other players that everyone is questioning (Miller, Wallace, Clark, Mendy, etc.).

LOL!

 

Oh, sorry. I miss understood. I originally thought you meant the angry mob was coming after BR, now I understand you meant the mob is coming after shaner.

I missed it the first time, that is funny the way you meant it.

 

oh i remember. seeing how i've watched this team since the mid 60's. at least thats my earliest memory of going to see them. it takes a whole team to do it , bottom line. the qb can't do it without the rest of them no matter who he is. i was at the games in the 70's also and terry couldn't do it without the rest of them. ben can't either. [/quote:15pi3o0o]

i agree 100% that Ben cant do it alone, but without the right qb on the team, winning a super bowl is almost impossible. exceptions are Ravens (Dilfer) and Redskins (Williams). other than that most super bowl teams had a great qb.

 

Ben does need to shoulder some blame for the poor O performance. And, he does accept responsibility. Heck, much of the time he's accepting responsibility for stuff he doesn't own. BA and MT, on the other hand don't seem to accept any responsibility for anything that doesn't turn out right.

 

Yes, Ben definitely takes responsibility for his play. I think MT does, also... I never hear press from BA so I can't comment on him.

 

Ben remains an inconsistent QB with the talent to perform better then he does more consistently. We've seen how the offense performed when Ben played well. When the offense struggled, it was generally because he didn't perform well. Some fans will attempt to have people believe it's because the play calling stunk every single time the offense didn't perform well. On the flip side, every time the offense performed well the play calling was great. I don't buy it. I watched how the players performed.

I believe offensive production starts and ends with the QB. The coaches can't make Ben throw the ball to certain WR's. The coaches give Ben options. Ben decides where he wants to go with the football. I believe the coaches design and call plays he likes to execute. When Ben doesn't perform well, it falls mostly on his shoulders. It's his job to make the Oline better by getting rid of the ball quicker. It's his job to make the WR's better by throwing the ball accurately and giving those guys a chance to make plays. It appears that he struggles in the red zone when the reads are quicker and the throwing windows get tighter. There were times that Ben did everything well. He just doesn't play well enough on a consistent enough basis to lift the offense to an elite level. I thought Ben would be playing at a higher level on a more consistent basis based on his early success in the league. I thought he would make a similar transition like Rodgers has. He's fallen short based on his level of talent. Ben's not going to change the way he plays the game. He helps the team win. It is what it is at this point.

For the OC bashers, Ben's inconsistent play won't improve under another OC. He's not going to change. I feel it's going to take a change at OC for people to come to that realization. Then again, some fans will continue to blame the current OC for ruining Ben. Steelers fans are so predictable.

 

It's so true. For some reason, it's taboo to bash Ben on this site. I've done it once or twice in the past and got jumped on. I just don't like him and never really did. Even after a great game by him, I would still rather have any other top QB in the league, because I know he's going to go back to the same old crap he normally does, which is neglect passing to his RB's, ignore his TE and instead look way down the field to pad his stats. I think he's selfish, and I have no time for selfish players on my favourite teams.

He's a proven winner, no denying that, but his first SB win he had the worst QB rating of any winning SB QB ever, and his second SB season, we had one of the best statistical defensive seasons in a very, very long time. During the 2008 SB season, there were many games where our offence didn't do much and we had to rely on the defence to get us the wins. Against the good teams that year, our offence struggled, but our defence bailed us out (and please don't say NE was a good team that year, as they didn't have Brady). True, Ben played well in the playoffs, but he was nothing special. He managed the games well and played mistake free, but he didn't have great numbers.

During the 2009 season Ben had his best season ever but our defence wasn't that great and look what happened, we missed the playoffs. Without good defence, Ben isn't going to take this team to the playoffs, let alone the SB.

My point is that yes, Ben is talented and has won a lot of games, but lets not forget that our defence has won us just as many games over the years, if not more. During our 2008 season, Charlie Batch likely would have gotten us to the SB because our defence really was that good. He might not have won us the SB, but he probably could have gotten us there. Ben really wasn't that good that year.

Ben is good, but he's not great, and I think he's far too arrogant. He thinks the success of the team is completely dependent on his arm, whereas the reality of the situation is he's a small piece of the larger equation. The 2009 season proved that when he had individual success but the team didn't make the playoffs.

 

But what changes has he made as a result of the losses? I haven't seen any changes since he took over this team. We just never seem to make any adjustments.

 

The direct actions of the HC are not transparent to me. I just have to go off of overall team performance. Using that measuring stick, I say 4/5 seasons in playoffs with 2 SB appearances and 1 Lombardi are pretty good. I believe the offense is really good, when clicking, but I think Tomlin is still putting the puzzle together.

I'm just curious... Were fans this critical of Cowher when he first took over the team as HC?

 

Well now, that was a well thought out response. Be careful when you drink your Kool-Aid.

rutan

 

Also, let's not forget. Ben is working with a very "young" group of WR's such as Brown, Wallace, Sanders, etc. A horrible OL and a medicore running back, a horrible OC that everybody seems to hate.

Let's not also forget where Ben Plays "Pittsburgh". He has the most pressure to perform for his fans than any other QB in the league.

Marino wouldn't break tackles, he would turtle. Marino had NO super bowl rings, Ben has two and counting. Marino, after a game looked tanned and fresh, Ben looks like a warrior with broken bones like his nose, fingers, feet, legs. Oh yeah, the weather in Miami is alot better than Pittsburgh.

Football is tough sport. Marino, Brady, Manning HOF's no doubt. But, for some reason I can't picture these guys wearing the Steelers jersey.

In Other words I would rather have a tough, smash mouth QB than an accurate passer playing for the Steelers...[/quote:2mdks167]

Again, all the qualities you mentioned are worthy but don't really rate when we are talking about the very best QB's in the league.

I can counter that Ben runs around a lot because he can't find one of the 5 receivers he has to choose from. How is it that Brady can find guys in 2 seconds and Ben needs 7 or 8?

Comparing Marino with Ben in this manner is not a good comparison. Marino had nothing of a team in Miami, yet he still managed to rack up huge stats. He could simply throw. He also had young recievers in Clayton and Duper. So your point of Ben having young recievers is moot. Hines is not young and neither is Heath.

Ben also has had the luxury of playing with the best defense in the league over the last 5 years. Marino was asked to simply outscore the other team. Ben has been handed a great job on an already established team.

As for Marino not wearing a Steelers uniform, I'm sure he would have jumped at the chance. Given the bad rap sheet he had after he left Pitt, this tarnished his image and is why he fell to the bottom of the first round. The Steelers could have drafted him as well as a host of other teams, but refresh my memory on who the Steelers took that year as the no 1 over Marino.

Seems to me Marino had some pretty good games against the Steelers too, not to mention taking a very average team to the SB but losing.

The point in all of this was to point out that Ben is not a very accurate passer. He has shown this over and over again. He simply is not that good. Yes, he has won two SB's and had a great winning drive against the Cardinals, but then again, he stunk it up against Seattle and the Packers.

rutan

 

“A coach is someone who tells you what you don't want to hear, who has you see what you don't want to see, so you can be who you have always known you could be.”
? Tom Landry

Arians isn't a coach.

 

Maybe coordinator would be a better word there, but I guess it wouldn't fit with the quote! :-D I think Arians is a heck of a coach, just a poor coordinator in crunch time. We march up and down the field during his 15 scripted plays, then when he's forced to think on the fly, he falters.

 

i do know one thing. ben misses his go to wr hines ward more then most think. cotchery is playing well and so is brown, but niether is hines ward to ben. when ben needed a play or first down hines was his security blanket more often then not.

 

After just 4 losses to playoff caliber teams and a guaranteed spot in the playoffs he's made as many changes as I'd expect him to make