The state of our Defense

I've been doing a lot of thinking on our defense since the Raiders game, and trying to determine what exactly is the problem and how do we fix it? Here's my thoughts...

A good defense in my opinion should have a solid mix of...

• 1-Able Veterans- These guys are your leaders. They're guys that are past their prime but that hopefully are able to make up for their physical shortcomings with their knowledge of the game. They're also guys you can go to in the clutch, and guys than can make the young latent around them better. Ike, Casey Hampton, James Harrison, Larry Foote, Brett Kiesel

• 2-Stars- These are the pro bowlers. The guys that really get talked about in the film room when you're gameplanning for a team. Guys that are in their prime. These are the guys you want more than others. Lamarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons, Troy Polamalu (I'd say Troy is a tweener between the top 2 categories)

• 3-Young Talent-These are guys that don't have the experience yet, but have the tools to be good. You don't want to rely too heavily on these guys but they can make plays in spots here or there. These are the guys that will hopefully be your stars in a couple of years. The Steelers historically do a great job in getting these guys ready.Cameron Heyward, Cortez Allen, Chris Carter, Ta'Amu

• 4-Role Players-Obviously not every spot can be a pro bowl caliber player. But you want guys that can do their job adequately.Ziggy Hood, Steve McClendon, Keenan Lewis, Stevenson Sylvester, Brandon Johnson, Ryan Mundy


Breakdown of talent:
I think our biggest problem is we're relying way too much on group 1 here. The vets. If Harrison, Kiesel, etc don't produce then we look like we did against the Raiders. I know Harrison is out and Troy, but we shouldn't be relying on those guys anymore anyway, because they won't be around much longer.

Our guys in group 2 aren't earning their fat contracts... Timmons is the most guilty of that. Woodley has looked ok, but he should be able to create some chaos without Harrison in there. Like I mentioned above, Troy may not be in this category anymore, he's almost a vet.

We also have a real lack of talent in groups 2 and 3. We just haven't drafted well lately on defense. At this point in their careers Ziggy Hood, Jason Worilds, Keenan Lewis, and Stevenson Sylvester should be stepping into starting roles and being "the guys" on our defense, and none of them are even close. The first two guys there were drafted in the first 2 rounds and they look like late round role players. I wish Curtis Brown had shown more at this point too. Cortez Allen is our only young guy on defense that really excites me at all. We have far too many guys in the "role player" category that shouldn't be. I really don't have a lot of optimism about this defense getting better anytime soon. We need playmakers. If you use my same breakdown of the offense it's MUCH more promising for the future.


Scheme:
I don't blame Lebeau completely... I'm a little but on the fence about him but I'm leaning more towards it's time to hang em up. His defense has worked when we had more talent, but it was also crippled against good passing attacks. 5 years ago the Patriots were the only offense that picked us apart because BB was the only coach with the balls to abandon the running game and throw it 50 times... Now we see that almost weekly. Not only that but with Snack wearing down and Aaron Smith, Farrior, etc gone our run defense isn't even as good as it once was. It pains me to see teams teams without a ton of talent on their defense thrive (see the Cardinals this season).

I think DL was a genius for the defense he developed in the previous NFL era... but I think it's a new era in the NFL, and we need the next mad scientist. It would never happen but I would be totally stoked to hire Rex Ryan who I think might be out of a job after this season. He'd essentially be the same as hiring Haley as our OC. A controversial, failed HC, who was a very good coordinator. I think it could work too because how much did you ever hear about Ryan when he was the Ravens DC? It wasn't until he was in the spotlight as a HC that he became so polarizing. That's slightly off topic and a pipe dream on my part...

For the time being I say DL finishes out the season, but I would like to see Tomlin get more involved in tweaking the defense. Mike was a great defensive mind before coming here, and seems like he was particularly adept at stopping the passing game, so let's see it!

 

The lack of a tried and true leader on the Defense is really showing through after 3 games this year. Someone or something has to light a fire under all these players to start playing with intensity and passion. They are NFL caliber players for a reason.

I hate the Ravens, but I must admit that I find myself respecting Ray Lewis more and more the past few years. Seeing what he does to motivate and inspire the players around him makes me really wish we had someone with 1/2 that passion getting the rest of the team going.

 

I disagree. I loved Joey for his leadership and his emotional shot in the arm on that defense but I don't think it's necessary. The biggest point in my post is this defense just lacks talent and playmakers.

I don't see a lack of effort of intensity. I think if that was the case they wouldn't be here because I don't think Tomlin would put up with that.

 

The problem can also be argued we drafted guys who are suited better on a 4-3 defense (Woirlds and Woodley both DE's in college and I think Timmons and Hood played 4-3 in college). Tomlin was coaching a 4-3 scheme as DB coach in Tampa..there is a good possibility they will go to a 4-3 when Lebeau retires next year because Tomlin wants to make his own imprint on the team. I don't think you draft 4-3 guys if you intend on staying with the 3-4. And maybe our players will look a lot better in a 4-3.

 

3 4 olb usually are small de in college
3 4 ilb usually are strong olb in college
now hood is a head scratcher from the beginning


that said i have no problem move to 4 3

 

To me I think it is a little bit of everything:

1. Missing 2 former defensive players of the year, it has a way of hurting your D. It doesn't imply that we don't have talent, only that you lose someone special...the replacement looks especially bad.

2. The scheme hasn't been executed well. There are 2 parts to this. 1) DL must realize he doesn't have the same talent out there and take advantage of the skills he does have on the field. Digging in and say, but this is the way I WANT to play when guys just can't do those things will always equal a loss. 2) If we do have the talent to execute properly than we need to actually start doing so. If you watch the TD run by McFadden, it wasn't the talent that was the issue, it was the lack of execution. Foote, Timmons, and Keisel got ATE UP on that play by not doing the right things.

3. I think intensity does need to be ramped up. They guys are not playing like the games MEAN something. Yep, they are a win or a loss, but does it really matter in the big picture? They aren't playing like it does.

4. Veteran QBs with talent. No matter what you think of Carson Palmer, the guy does have talent. He has never been the same since KVO hit him low, but they guy is a vet and knows what he is doing. Palmer and Manning are guys who if given time can eat a secondary up. That is just reality.

5. Lack of adjustments. It is 3 of the last 4 games where we have seen this team be unwilling to remove something which is affecting them as a defense. If the Offense is constantly doing XYZ and you never change to stop that...guess what you are going to get burned.

6. Get back to the roots. I understand that passing D is key in the new NFL, but the best way to defend the pass, is to DOMINATE the run. Get the opponent behind. Eliminate any ability of that team to run the ball making them predictable and then dial up whatever blitz you want on that down to create sacks and turnovers. We haven't done that since the Super Bowl against Green Bay. Yes, they chewed us up through the air (no adjustments, see point 5), but we have forgotten how to make teams one dimensional. I think it is why are sacks and our turnover numbers are down.

 

The State of this defense is they have allowed 75 points in 3 games, thats an average of 25 points a game, and the outlook doesnt bode well for that kind of incompetence, they are on pace to give up 400 points this year, unheard of by any team with playoff aspirations in history, to fix this mess in two weeks seems to be impossible without making radical changes in the starting lineup.....

 

we have a defensive coordinator that does not make adjustments..
we have players that are past their prime..
besides Woodley and Clark..who else is a stud on defense????

 

polamamu harrison and keisel but two are injuried and one is double all the time
put heiward and bench hood is the first thing to do

 

i'd have to put lines 1,2 and 3 in with line 4.

remember...... defense wins championships and it all starts up front.

these still hold true and we are lacking in both right now.

 

I agree to some level, but this defense under DL has always been about talent at the LB positions. The DLine is huge as they need to create enough havoc to be respected, but it is the LBs who have always been the playmakers in this defense.

Woodley and Timmons have not been up to par. If Foote is your best LB we have problems. The year before we drafted Timmons he was our 4th best LB....now he's our best? Kind of makes you think how far the group has fallen. It wouldn't be that way if Harrison was playing and Woodley and Timmons were playing the way they are capable.

 

as i've touched on before, our d-line can't tie up linemen like casey used to and aaron smith used to. they also kept some of the heat off of keisel, which now he's a main focus for their o-line, at least more then he used to be with those guys on the field. james makes woodley better and farrior made timmons better. hoke is missing to. all guys that made o-lines have to account for them are gone or at least gone from what they used to be.

 

We just have too many missing pieces on defence.

Where do you find another Harrison, Polamalu, Clark, or Smith? The missing pieces of the DL D.

It's a big problem for sure, I agree.

IMO

 

Aaron Smith has been gone for 2 years now. Why are we still talking about him?
More relevant to look at the decline in Hampton and Keisel and the lack of Hood or Heyward to make any progression to being worth anything more than a mediocre player.
Everyone is still down on Foote and I am not sure I follow the mentality. I think we are all driving towards the same conclusion that others around him need to step it up, but instead of bashing him for setting the bar we are asking everyone to rise to...lets celebrate that the guys i actually playing well.

 

For years, our defense has been designed to stop the run. And we were dang good at it too. Now the NFL is a passing league and I think since Bill Belicheat exposed us enough with dinking and dunking over the past several years (playoffs included), the rest of the copycat league has a nice formula to drive down the field. Our scheme to not give up the big play no longer works. We give WRs way too much cushion and average QBs look good against our team (ie: Bruce Gradowski, Colt McCoy). Our DBs need to start being much more aggressive and attacking at the line. I used to love the dominant defense, but now I'm holding my breath even when the other team has a 3rd and 15. Perhaps Troy needs to forget about run support, gamble less, and start helping out the corners more.

 

Not to pick hairs...but Lewis was a 3rd round pick. Urbik, Wallace, Lewis....all 3rd round that year.

HACK

 

A very well thought out observation SBD, I have been asking some of these same questions
and they seem to fall on deaf ears. You have to have playmakers and unfortunatley I don't
see a whole lot on this defense or players that are behind these so called starters stepping up and making a statment
ALA Antonio Brown, now he is a game changer.

 

All teams have strengths and weaknesses. The teams that overcome weakness with their strengths usually have the best chance to win. Regardless of the formula, it always boils down to execution. The scheme not to give up the big play no longer works based on a handful of games? There is a much larger sample size that proves that not giving up big plays is key to defensive success. Any unit or scheme success hinges on the players. The Steelers defense did not have their 2 best defensive players. Not sure why people don't factor that into the equation.

People only see what they want to see. All defenses use different techniques and that includes the Steelers. People also attempt to make it seem like one particular style of play is more successful over another style of play. People need to get over the cushion. The Steelers have ranked as a top 5 defense several times using the cushion. As soon as the DB's play aggressively and attack the line, QB's will throw the ball over the top. I've seen DB's on this team get beat playing aggressively. For example, Wiliam Gay and Ike Taylor were both beaten in the SB playing up tight press coverage. Gay was beating over the top by Jordy Nelson for a TD. Ike was burned by Fitz for a TD. The Steelers defense will continue to mix things up.

It's really simple, what the defense needs to do is get healthy and execute. One more thing, fans should have more respect for players that make it into the NFL. Even average players like Gradowski and Mccoy can play well. Sometimes the stars align for players and s*** happens and they have the game of their lives.

You should get used to the idea that the days of consistently dominating defenses are probably over. The league has all but ensured that with almost every advantage slanted towards offenses.

 

smith played last year. the thought being though we have not replaced his ability all those years we were a top defense.

heyward saw the field for 5 plays last week. i think he's better than mediocre, but until he sees significant playing time, i'm not sure how you could make that call.

hampton, hood and keisel are not making tackles and not keeping blockers off of the lb'ers very well and also can't get off blocks to make plays.

foote is a backup, always was and always will be. being the best on THIS defense is not a big ringing endorsement. we should have many players ,playing better then he is.

harrison,sly,troy being back should solidify 3 levels of the D. we gotta hope for the injury bug to leave this team and start a run of games against good teams.

we have to get the young speed mixed in to keep guys fresh. that's why we kept them.

 

All good points here but, to me, the problem really lies in our defensive backfield. We just do not have the talent in the secondary to help anyone out. I guess I really should clarify and be specific, in that I am speaking about our corners. Ike was always able to hold his own but I'm not sure what happened to him this year. Maybe some of our younger guys will develope but they aren't getting the job done right now. Hard for anyone to on defense to look good when you are getting picked apart. I can see where people are dogging Timmons and Woodley but I really wonder what they are being asked to do at this point. Anyhow, that is just my opinion!

 

Great post.

One of the problems with watching our D is 1) we want to stop being passed all over; and 2) we want sacks, interceptions, domination, etc.; when 3) we don't have the best DBs, which means the LBs are needed in coverage more. There was a distinct move away from the run-stopping force that we used to have, and it was a direct response to the dink'n'dunk offenses. It might not be the defense we've come to expect and love, but it was a deliberate move.

We need to be clear what standard we are using, here. At the end of the day, we need the defense to make stops and keep the opponent's score lower than ours. We can do that with the DBs playing off a cushion, or without. We can do that with DEs getting sacks, or without. The problem is that so far this season, we aren't doing it!

 

HOW DO YOU GENERATE A PASS RUSH SHOULD ALWAYS BE AT THE TOP OF ANY
DEFENSIVE GAME PLAN. We have not had a DLineman since I don't know when that could
apply pressure to the QB. We have always relied on LB's, due to the defense we run, This is not
working anymore? We have got to get back to BLITZBURGH days before it is too late ATTACK
and let the cards fall were they may, atleast we would see entertaining football. Just a hint
why couldn't our Dl coaches study film on ELITE pass rushers and thier technique and teach
our guys some of these moves to have in thier arsenal to use?

 

WHO is out of their prime? :bs: :bs: Stop buying into the bull**** about our defense is slow and old. The problem is coaching, they know it, and nothing is being done about it. So, they just throw up their hands. The scheme we run no longer works. Time to change with the NFL, the game has changed.

Lewis and Reed are older than 90% of our defense and they are still preforming. We were all glad Slug is out this year.

 

who's past their prime? um let's see..Polamalu and Harrison can't seem to stay healthy..so they are past their prime..Hampton? enough said...

anyone else agrees or am I just making this up?