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The Real JuJu

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Blast Furnace, May 1, 2020.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I never made that argument, of course he’s better. I made the argument that a great WR can perform with anyone at QB. I never even mentioned Hopkins, you guys did and I’m sorry but his 2015 season isn’t comparable anyway but he’s still a better WR then JuJu.

    I would take any of the QBs being mentioned over what we had last year, the most putrid display of quarterbacking I’ve ever seen. Ever.

    I also doubt Houston’s OC was running the wildcat and throwing a million passes at the line of scrimmage because he didn’t trust his QB. JuJu was completely taken out of a lot of gameplans by his own OC.
     
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  2. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    You are 100% correct however when Ben is here $hitner is only OC 1a Ben is the real OC......:hehehe::hehehe::hehehe:

    I feel like with Ben back and adding a few weapons in Ebron and Claypool we are going to see a pretty good offense. As long as Ben is healthy, if Ben goes down then the lack of fixing the back up position will shine it's ugly head and that will all come back to OC 1a.....$hitner.
     
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  3. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Johnny Football says “hold my beer”
     
  4. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    If Ben goes down again ( I think he plays every game) yeah, Mason is behind the eight ball, Ebron will be a waste, & we didn't draft a wildcat QB.
     
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  5. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    I admire @Blast Furnace for making the case for JuJu as I think the majority of public opinion has probably swing against JuJu.

    As mentioned I don't put the entirety of JuJu's 2019 struggles on him. No experienced WR opposite him let alone an Antonio Brown. No Ben. Inexperienced and raw QB play. His numbers were due to drastically fall.

    But JuJu does deserve some critical blame. He had huge drops and fumbles that have cost us games. Not just last year either.

    I've seen the criticisms the likes of Mark Madden have thrown at the kid. It's over the top but the underlying facts can't be ignored. JuJu seems to suffer from concentration issues. He's inconsistent at times. High ceiling but Low floor.

    I would not give him a big money contract. I don't think he's worth it. I'd offer him a fair money deal based on his 4 year production. I assume he will say no thanks and leave for a sunnier climate that is a bigger market.

    JuJu has other interests outside of football, which is his right. He has terrible body language. Nobody is happier when things are going well and few are moodier when things are bad. He has Diva qualities. With the drafting of Claypool, I thought that was the writing in the wall that this will be JuJu's last season in Pittsburgh.

    I know in today's NFL, social media and Brand is important to players but for me, I will always prefer the Heath Miller's to the Browns and Smith-Schusters of the league. Call me an old carmudgeon (at 37) but I don't care about an NFL player's thoughts on Twitter or his gaming efforts on twitch.

    Say what you will, when JuJu was hurt last year and not practicing, yet he was going to events and parties, it's a bad look. Tomlin may potentially look the other way on that but I doubt that Colbert and Rooney's would.

    I remember a long time ago an old Montreal Canadians defenseman (Malakhov?) who had not played all year due to a knee injury was caught skiing. I believe he was promptly suspended.

    As for the argument of great WRs producing with subpar QBs, there's actually quite a few examples. But the response. Will likely always be (Yeah he's bad, but he is still better than Rudolph/Hodges!) So not sure it's worth doing a deep dive into but some examples that immediately come to mind

    Hopkins-every trash Houston QB (Believe was already mentioned)

    Moss-Cassel

    Megatron-Kitna/Orvlovsky

    Hilton-Brissett

    DJ Chark-Minshew (just last year)

    Now some of these comparisons aren't fair as they are HOF WRs. But there are examples out there of elite WRs fairing well with subpar QBs.

    Do I expect a big bounce year in 2020 from JuJu? Absolutely. Ben is back. The 2 of them have chemistry. Would I give JuJu the contract he will be looking for? Absolutely not.
     
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  6. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    To me, this is a key issue regarding JJ. With AB gone, JJ was a focal point with opponents coverage and was much harder to get open (plus underwhelming QB and OL play). With CC, some of that, hopefully, goes away as CC garners a lot more attention opening JJ up. CC is too big a target to go running around the secondary with regular coverage. I think JJ reaps big rewards this season because of our 1st draft pick.
     
  7. mytake

    mytake Well-Known Member

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    Just remember Ben is the defacto OC.
     
  8. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Can someone recover from turf toe?
     
  9. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Wow, lot I disagree with in this post. We’ll start with Orvlovsky, he stuck out on that list because well, he was pretty awful, so I checked him and found one game with Johnson and he had 67 yards. That’s no better than JuJu.

    The part you guys keep glossing over though is we are talking about a 2nd and 3rd string QB getting their feet wet for the first time. Minshew is the only one and are we going to pretend that Rudolph/Hodges had any type of season compared to Minshew mania???

    As I mentioned in another post, Hopkins didn’t reach 1,000 yards with Brock and Savage (mostly Brock). How good do you think he’d have done with Rudolph and Hodges? Better than JuJu, sure but nothing to write home about either.

    Then you add in the absurd play calling, injuries, no AB and his first season as a number 1 and it’s no wonder he had a bad season.

    The other thing I disagree with is the moody stuff, where do you get that from? He gets killed because he’s smiling on the sideline when they are losing. Come on man, he’s one of the least selfish players around. Story after story of him trying to help his teammates.

    I don’t remember any stories about him partying while injured but what was he doing? I don’t think socializing is that risky to his health. No reports of him not showing up for meetings, being late to practice. By all accounts he is a hard worker.

    Before last season he had exceptional numbers, they are listed in the OP. If he posts another 1400 yard season it proves last year was an outlier and he’s definitely worth the money. Now whether they can afford him or should that money be spent elsewhere is a different argument but if he bounces back this year, he’s definitely a top WR in the league and worth it.
     
  10. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    :lolol:

    Yeah but no WR is looking good with him either!

    With rest. If he did have it, should be fine with the offseason to heal.
     
  11. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    That same OC led the Steelers to the best red zone offense in 2018.
     
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  12. LambertsDentist

    LambertsDentist Well-Known Member

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    The kid was suddenly thrust into the #1 spot trying to replace AB's production. That's a lot of pressure to put on a 22 year old. Add in the injuries (Ben's and his own), lack of a running game, his receivers coach dying, etc and he might have been trying to do too much. I'm not too worried about him.
     
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  13. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    Hard to shine when the QB's are running for their lives. Washington did have some decent moments, as did DJ...there just wan not enough decent play from the QB circus and every one else combined. Injuries, inexperience, lack of play calling and plays (somewhat attributed to the previous things). I do not really put the blame on any one person. A vet BU QB may have fared a little better and made the WR stats more reasonable, but the O was going to be pretty bad with all the crap that happened last year.
     
  14. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    I had actually forgotten about that. With Ebron and Claypool (and a healthy Ben) that stat should improve. One of the most pressing O stats that need to improve as well is scores after turnover. The D needs to see their efforts rewarded.
     
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  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Agree with the on the field stuff. I think the off the field stuff and moodiness/diva tendencies are not as significant as you seem to believe. Still, I think he’s gone after this season simply because of the numbers game. He has the misfortune of having his contract come up in an offseason when Heyward’s expires and when we probably want to extend Watt (to avoid a franchise tag situation), sign Feiler, sign Hilton and/or Sutton and maybe extend Nelson and others entering contract years. There are certainly others I’m forgetting at the moment. JuJu is a very good receiver. Much better than his 2019 numbers indicate. However, with the WR talent we have brewing, I see spending a lot on him as being unwise with our other monetary needs.
     
  16. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    You mean Ben the OC? With the addition of Claypool and Ebron I am seeing a return to 2018 red zone performance. Damn I hope we have a season...
     
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  17. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    That was so frustrating last season, the Steelers defense led the league in creating turnovers, but the offense was so inept especially that 49ers game :facepalm:.
     
  18. Jball

    Jball Well-Known Member

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    I'll say this, There is another way to look at it. I can't imagine that Juju was not the 1st option for both young QB's last year. They would've been looking for him as their first option a lot of the time. Yet, they could never find anybody to throw to. Just standing there holding the ball. Juju clearly wasn't creating separation a lot of the time. That's where my concern lies.

    Does he have the ability to get open when he is the focus of the defense? I guess we'll find out.

    I think Ben's gonna fall in love with DJ.
     
  19. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Hello

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    Depends on the grade. Turf toe forced Jack Lambert to retire.
     
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  20. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    how many number two's have become stud number one's after the prior number one left? Juju is a very, very good number two and that ain't a bad thing. :cool:
     
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  21. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    In 2008, Orvlovsky and Megatron 9 games together. Combined for about 709 yards and 7 TDs.

    Once again I cant bring up QB names and get the "Rudolph and Hodges are worst" retort. And no, Minshew is not better than Mason Rudolph, IMO.

    Yes Fichtner did the offense no favors last year. 2019 was a dumpster fire for just about everyone on offense other than a couple of young WRs.

    https://www.pennlive.com/steelers/2...ter-parties-as-pittsburgh-burns-analysis.html

    I remember seeing tweets from Pittsburgh journalists atleast once where JuJu slipped out without giving post game interviews after a tough loss.

    I'm not trying to tear down JuJu. I think he is a really good WR with a personality that a fan base will love. As I said, I expect him to have a big rebound 2020.

    I'm just saying I do not think the Steelers are going to give him the big money contract he will be looking for and that if you are a big JuJu fan, I would soak it in this year.
     
  22. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    At this point I too would be surprised if Juju gets an extension. They need to get deals done with Heyward and Watt and both starting offensive tackles are unrestricted free agents next off season. All of the above are more important than Juju. Even if he balls out in 2020 I just don’t think the money will be there unless he is happy to play on a very team friendly contract.

    If the season goes downhill and they are out of contention I would not actually be surprised to see him traded before the deadline. It would be good to get something for him over and above a compensatory pick. If Diggs is worth a first and several mid round picks Juju is surely worth at least a second.
     
  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I came up with 666. Kitna started a couple games that Orvlovsky got some reps in but I didn’t count those. Either way, thats nothing special. What Hopkins did for 1500 yards was impressive but again, I’d take any of those QB’s over Mason and Hodges. The Steelers gambled not having any experienced QB’s behind Ben and bit them in the ass.

    Anyway, going in circles. You can dig up exceptions like Hopkins but they are not the rule. **** QB play will usually result in **** production from your receivers.

    At one point I didn’t expect JuJu back, I figured another bad season he is gone or he has a great season and will be priced out. They could always franchise him though. If he has another 1400 yard performance, I think they should make a big effort to sign him. AB or not, what he did prior to last season was special. Him, DJ and Claypool would be a formidable receiving group. Plus if Ben and Washington can get on the same page and then there is Ebron and Vance. I wouldn’t break that up. Thats a nightmare for any DC. I’d franchise JuJu if I had too.

    Those tweets about JuJu probably came from Madden, total d-bag.
     
  24. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Honestly speaking @Blast Furnace if Bud Dupree also prices himself out of here, Pittsburgh has a contingency plan for that in the mold of Alex Highsmith; a player a lot of people are underselling right now currently. To me, Alex is TJ-lite. Not as athletic, not as polished but the same desire and effort that T.J. showed in his Junior Year at Wisconsin. For me, those are admirable traits to build upon. Besides, he does have some good moves but he really needs an NFL Weight Room in the worst way.


    Why is Bud Dupree relevant to JuJu?! Should Bud Dupree and JuJu both have great seasons, of the two, I would imagine that the team is likely to keep JuJu as he is the younger of the two with a ceiling yet to be hit. In addition, assuming Mason or whomever else the Steelers deem to be the future is on the roster by that time, that QB will have JuJu, Chase, James and Diontae.



    In today's NFL, four Receivers are better than three. Even though three is the bare minimum, four allows for far greater flexibility for a Quarterback. Gives him more options on the field.
     
  25. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That was a 32-year-old man nearing the end of his career, not a 23-year-old kid who still hasn't even hit his prime. Lambert's injury was also 36 years ago. Medical treatment for all sorts of injuries is better now.
     

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