The QB position is in the midst of evolving

As I have been watching tapes on HS kids ,I have noticing these guys are a lot better passers than in years past....I have also been looking at College Tape for the draft and I see these guys are better passers as well....Then I started watching Cam,Dalton,Bradford,Stafford and others trying to get a reason as to why?

What I found was that the Offensive strategies have evoled so much that most Teams can create 1 on 1 coverage and the WR'S are so good you can't really cover them 1 on 1...This has elevated the level of play from the QB position,,the QB'S of today now put in a lot more film time and they learn to recognize the 1 on 1 stuff a lot better than they use to....

If I was a HC in the NFL I would have a lot less fear about starting a Rookie then I did even 5 years ago....I will also add that the OC position is starting to bend the system more to fit the QB'S....

As I have stated before now is the time to use the running game and the PA pass the reasons are right on the tape the running game creates 1 on 1's and the PA gets the WR a extra step ....Combine that with the new rules and there is really no reason to do anything different....

The 1st. thing that we should work on is the play fake.....The 2nd. thing is the WR'S selling the Play Fake......The 3rd. thing is the RB carring out the play fake....From there the sky is the limit if the OC will design runs that have pass options and passes that have run options....As all this is going on teach the QB to find the 1 on 1 in every practice and on each and every play,teach the QB to feel the blitz before the snap and to adjust the WR to the appropriate route.....There should never be a mix up there should be built in signals that you can switch on each play....A little harder on the road but at home should be real simple...

The way I do it is off the best looks from the opposing D ,,,the QB and the WR'S study the plays and # them and learn those looks then we practiceit..The QB calls out the WR'S Name then the play # to run double moves we simply call out the # then special...This is used when we have the look we want and we have the protection we want.....ie slant/go,out and up,screen arrow and so on anyway now the WR and the QB know the route for that specific play,this is what we need in some way and then we will be able to adjust those on the fly if we actually practice,study, and plan for each specific game....

Oh the Screen Arrow is a great play ,I know people hate the WR screen as do I if you only run it 1 way....We run the WR screen from a Trips 2 RB look and block out with coth inside guys and run the wheel from time to time with both inside guys......This all sets up the S/Arrow play as if we catch them in Force Man it can easily be a score because the DB'S are so concerned with the Screen and the Wheel routes they push the LOS trying to stay in position to get the screen and the FS is looking for the wheel routes this gives you mad space on the sideline....You just have to throw it back shoulder with smoke and let the WR break 1 tacle....We ran tis play all the time was good for 4 or 5 yards or a TD almost all the time.....We gave Teams fits with just this 1 set of plays...

I have high hopes our new OC Will do the same with his stuff....

 

if you get pressure through the interior of the line, ( like we give up alot) it throws a clincker in this method. getting pressure ( without having to send a blitzer or extra lb) we have to seal the inside before we use these types of plays especially the wheel routes. interior pressure messes up any type of timing and gives the advantadge back to the db's. if you have db's that are disiplined and don't fall for the play fake, that step the wr's would gain is null and void then and the wheel routes take to long to get a man open allowing a lb the ability to cover them. the HS game and the college game have teams that don't have the athletes at all the positions like the pros do. big difference. HS and college defensive backs are not as schooled as most pro teams are either. offenses always will have an advantadge at these levels for most teams. so yes the qb's will make it look a little easier. the spread fools most db's into extra steps, they eventually get coached not to take. a big difference between sophmores and sr's, if you haven't noticed.

 

I disagree with your assesment.....I think this same scheme can be ran in the Pro's.....The key is building plays together....The Play Fakes can and do work if ran off effective plays on every level...

Also there is no LB who can cover a WR on a wheel route,,,I was not talking about a RB wheel route ,,it seems that's what your thinking?The only guy who can cover the Wheel WR is the FS because the play is off the same look as the Screen.....Also these plays attack spots on the field using different types of Triangles.....These are built in on the route tree....I wished we had a chalk board....

I have watched the Steeler tape and all the plays I talked about above can be run very effectively if all the plays are built together......We also have a series of run plays that Force the LB'S and the rush to stay at home,,,if they start cheating then we make them pay...

Anyway that has been the problem with our O.....Our plays didn't work together at all.....Basically that Bubble screen can be ran from the Trip 2 RB look and we have a whole playbook that fits that 1 play,,this is my hope for our new OC .......

The bottom line is as good as DB'S are they can't play 2 spots 15 yards a part on the same play ,,,this is where I say the QB and the schemes have evolved so much.....I actually think the HS DB'S have a bigger advantage than the Pro's......2 rules that support that there is no after 5 yard contact rule.....And PI is only a 15 yard flag instead of the spot of foul....

Again the NFL is starting to show that any play from any level can be ran in the NFL esp. now in the passing game because of the rules combined with the skill of the QB'S and WR'S....

 

As long as the O-Line is upgraded and holds up, and the running game is established as strong, then this plan should work like gangbusters.

Let's see what the Steelers do with the O-Line.

 

i agree play fakes are a beutiful thing and is a lost art for most pro qb's. there have been a few that have used them to their advantadge through the years. boomer was great at it for the bungles. dalton isn't bad either. bree's is very good at it. to be honest tebow is good at it. you also have to have a qb that is fairly accurate to run these wheel routes. we saw ben miss a few wide open ones late this year. it just depends how the defenses are going to play them. once you show you use it alot teams adjust and take them away. pressure still disrupts alot of things in the backfield.

 

you are correct. it still all starts up front on both sides of the ball. we need better play from both sides up front.

 

I'm in mac daddyo's camp, the wheel route, PA pass, and those types of plays work great and need to be used but interior pressure is why the Steelers lack consistancy doing those things and I honestly believe that we don't run those types of plays very often due to the lack of consistancy with the blocking skills of the o-line. The 2005 o-line was less than average and was the worst group I ever saw, that was until this season. Us, as fans, we see everything differently than what the coaching staff does, so it is easy to say run this and that based on what we see but when you think about the big picture it really begins to make sense. PA pass for instance, a missed block in the middle will loose yardage and has the likly hood to end up as a turn over and with an average o-line it isn't much of a gamble but with the line the Steelers field, anything other than a straight run or drop back has a high potential for a defensive big play due to the uncertainty of the blocking up front and based on that it appears that the coaches know they have a number of sub par linemen.

 

That is the most important aspect of any successful offense and the OCs that do it well are among the elite OCs in the game. I'm not sure everyone does in fact realize how crucial that skill is,anyone can design plays that theoretically should work. The art is in designing plays out of 'common formations',this is what keeps the defense off balance and inhibits their ability to play downhill.Everyone likes to complain about the OL but in reality it was and is the lack of actually stringing together plays that work well with each other. You can have a bunch of plays that work, say 1-10 but when you call them randomly at any time like 1-6-4-9 they don't build off each other and in turn does nothing to fool or confuse a defense.This was BAs biggest flaw he could in fact design plays that could work, but he had no idea how to put it all together.

 

The QB position evolves but often comes full circle. In the 80's we saw QB's such as Lynn Dickey, Don Majkowski and Neil Lomax putting up 4000 yards in a pass happy league and then we saw more grind it out teams have success for a while.

 

oh, i do agree with that assesment. a good gameplan and execution are key. situational football is not just run in the redzone. it's a game long concept. you have to have the horses to do it. one breakdown throws the whole play off. all plays are designed to score if every aspect of the play is done to perfection and the defense does what you think they will on any given play.

 

I have to respectfully disagree on this point,not all plays are designed to score....some are designed to move the chains.....some are designed to control the ball....some are even designed with 'wrinkles' to use at a later time,maybe that was the problem all along, maybe our former OC only designed and called plays to score. It's not a all or nothing philosophy. I think your point has solved why we were so inefficient in the red-zone.

 

Some may be upset with me bringing him up, but screw it. JoePa once talked about how running the ball down someone's throat, play after play with them not being able to stop you is more damaging to the emotional state of an offense than a long bomb. The long bomb you can sort of blow off as a blown coverage or someone making a mistake that can be corrected, but when a team knows the play is run does everything right to cover their gaps and you still run, you know you lost the battle man vs. man. That can really take it out of a D.

All this being said, I have no problem throwing the ball more than running for our offense, we have the weapons for it. My problem with this past defense was we basically appeared to do just a couple of things. 1. Run the ball behind a pulling LG through the RG gap. 2. Line Ben up in the shotgun and let him sling it around. The shotgun isn't the problem, the problem is that Arians appeared to believe that the only way to keep the pressure off of Ben was to give him an extra 7-8 yards behind the line to give him space. The reality is he could have used the play action pass. He could have used the screen pass. He could have used designed roll-outs as Ben is great when throwing on the move. He just didn't want to do it. We gave up 40 sacks not just because we threw it more and our Oline stinks, we gave up 40 sacks because when you line up with an empty backfield 5-wide on 3rd and 2, the D knows a blitz more than likely gets to the QB. Overload either side the D and you get to Ben...period. Hard to throw the ball that way.

 

Actually, I seem to remember Ben being very good at play-action, when he first started for us.
And while i agree we should do it more, I don`t believe it is the be all, end all, that PWP is making it out to be...
When you go to it TOO often, IMHO, it loses its effectiveness, because the db`s don`t bite on it after seeing it repeatedly..
I do agree we should run it more often, but not necessarily to the degree PWP is calling for.
Also, I completely agree, that designing plays to work together, and lull the defense into believing they know what is coming, then using that against them, and running different plays from the same formation is the key to a highly successful offense.
For instance, the play-action, works MUCH better, when you have established an effective running game, that the defense has to respect...
Boy, it all sure sounds so easy, on a message board, doesn`t it?

 

Agree.I also would add that the "New" NFL Rules are geared for the QB and Offenses.Defenses are stiffled and can't play as aggresive as they used too.Goodell makes sure no one(Steelers) are playing to aggressively.

 

if you are an oc and you want to create plays that are not to score with, then you are in the wrong game. if every aspect of the play is done to perfection, it should score that is the aim of an offense. if your wr. catches a ball and is just happy with getting the first down and not scoring if he can, then somethings wrong with your offense. it's a play made to score with but if time only allows a first down and out of bounds, thats no more then a player turning a scoring play into a smart play. the same play in any other situation would be drawn up to score.

 

if you are an oc and you want to create plays that are not to score with, then you are in the wrong game. if every aspect of the play is done to perfection, it should score that is the aim of an offense. if your wr. catches a ball and is just happy with getting the first down and not scoring if he can, then somethings wrong with your offense. it's a play made to score with but if time only allows a first down and out of bounds, thats no more then a player turning a scoring play into a smart play. the same play in any other situation would be drawn up to score. [/quote:340rvn48]
What? every play called is not designed to score,most plays are called to move the chains and control the clock and used to set-up scoring opportunities later in the game. So a full-back dive is designed to score, a 10 yd out is designed to score,that makes no sense.

 

TY ....And this is exactly how I see it......I blame the middle pressure on the fact that we have only 1 play inside and we ran it from the same set the same way all the time....We also never used the PA off of that or threw the ball to areas behind the LB'S to slow or negate the rush....As stated above we have runs to stop the pressure as well as passes.....1 simple thing is the trap pass from the same look,,if the LB stunts inside just pin him in there and run trap right where he came from ,,I Love a trap play on a SS...If the LB is stunting outside then you trap right over the Center ,he has taken his self out of both those plays and put extra pressure on the rest of his Team..

We also have a shovel pass we run with that same look...A RB swing pass to the Strong side a sweep,a RB screen weak side to help hold the back side guys....Off the PA we run Curls,Outs, and Seam routes to the RB'S through the fake holes to further stretch the D and keep them guessing.....

As I stated above there is really no way to stop this O if ran Correctly with our talent level.....Keep in mind this is just the 2 Rb Trip look after that we can motion into any set that we want.....We always use a TE as the inside Trip guy ,gives you a better blocker and a big target in the passing game....A good OC would take this type of O and dismantle almost every D in the NFL....This is what I expect to see next year....

 

What? every play called is not designed to score,most plays are called to move the chains and control the clock and used to set-up scoring opportunities later in the game. So a full-back dive is designed to score, a 10 yd out is designed to score,that makes no sense.[/quote:2ixn0kew]
have you ever seen a FB dive break open and the FB keeps going? he doesn't just stop because he made his one yard. that makes no sense. if that ten yard out gets the first and the defender slips down or there is a mix up in coverage or a missed tackle does the receiver just take the 10 because he got the first down and no one touched him? i'd bench him and the FB that took the one yard. we've seen right here what we can do in between the 20's. no team in the history of the game won because they just moved the chains and held the ball longer.

 

What? every play called is not designed to score,most plays are called to move the chains and control the clock and used to set-up scoring opportunities later in the game. So a full-back dive is designed to score, a 10 yd out is designed to score,that makes no sense.[/quote:3g9uowum]
have you ever seen a FB dive break open and the FB keeps going? he doesn't just stop because he made his one yard. that makes no sense. if that ten yard out gets the first and the defender slips down or there is a mix up in coverage or a missed tackle does the receiver just take the 10 because he got the first down and no one touched him? i'd bench him and the FB that took the one yard. we've seen right here what we can do in between the 20's. no team in the history of the game won because they just moved the chains and held the ball longer. [/quote:3g9uowum]
I didn't say he would just stop and not gain as much as he could thats just retarded, but the play isn't designed to realistically score it is designed to get a first down or to set up a shorter down and distance.Yeah if all the defenders fell down on every play we could score at will and if the queen had balls she'd be the king.

 

What? every play called is not designed to score,most plays are called to move the chains and control the clock and used to set-up scoring opportunities later in the game. So a full-back dive is designed to score, a 10 yd out is designed to score,that makes no sense.[/quote:hzyl8tbm]
have you ever seen a FB dive break open and the FB keeps going? he doesn't just stop because he made his one yard. that makes no sense. if that ten yard out gets the first and the defender slips down or there is a mix up in coverage or a missed tackle does the receiver just take the 10 because he got the first down and no one touched him? i'd bench him and the FB that took the one yard. we've seen right here what we can do in between the 20's. no team in the history of the game won because they just moved the chains and held the ball longer. [/quote:hzyl8tbm]
I didn't say he would just stop and not gain as much as he could thats just retarded, but the play isn't designed to realistically score it is designed to get a first down or to set up a shorter down and distance.Yeah if all the defenders fell down on every play we could score at will and if the queen had balls she'd be the king. [/quote:hzyl8tbm]
that still doesn't mean that that play is only designed for 1 yard. i know my playbook isn't full of plays designed for 1yd.- one for 2 yds.- one for 3 yds......... there are many queens out there with balls.

 

Actually Mac there are a lot of plays in the play book designed to get a certain amount of yardage....As stated above there are also plays that are designed just to set up a big play later....There are plays designed as pure safe plays for when you have the lead or your in FG range in a game where points are at a premium...

Nice article on Steelersdepot from Ike Taylor about the running game and loving the 4 and 5 yards a clip stuff.....He also explains exactly why we try and take the run away and how if a Team can run it doesn't matter who you have on D everything just gets to hard to stop.....

Situational play calling is a huge deal and yes you should have 25 or so plays designed to get a certain amount of yardage at the least.....You need like 15 or so bread and butter plays and add 10 or so each week that are Team Specific.....As I have stated is best to have runs and passes from similar sets to keep from telegraphing the plays......I will also add this is when most big plays happen when the D guesses 1 way and you call it another,,,,This is why it is Important to stay on schedule for down and distance a 3rd. and 3 or 4 should have a wide open playbook which gives you a lot better chance of fooling the D and hitting a big play......That's the part where your plays designed to get short yardage actually break for Big Plays.....It all works together...

 

i understand situational play calls and the need for them in certain instances. no play is designed for just X number of yards though, just to set up another big play. you may hope and plan for it to work out that way, but wasting plays is not a good offensive style just to set up a scoring play the next play. if all is executed to perfection on any given play, it should be able to score. plays are designed to get that one yard if needed BUT, it doesn't mean it has to stop there. i understand trying to use clock management with plays and setting up a field goal as time is running out and all, but it doesn't mean the play wasen't originally designed for it to not score. it's how it's adapted to the situation of the game.

 

Thanks for helping me get my point across. :swordsman: I thought I would have to suddenly take everything I know about the game of football and throw it out the window. Football is like a game of chess, you need to use strategy to set your opponent up. Some plays are designed to be your pawns and some your knights.

 

What? every play called is not designed to score,most plays are called to move the chains and control the clock and used to set-up scoring opportunities later in the game. So a full-back dive is designed to score, a 10 yd out is designed to score,that makes no sense.[/quote:3d043psu]
have you ever seen a FB dive break open and the FB keeps going? he doesn't just stop because he made his one yard. that makes no sense. if that ten yard out gets the first and the defender slips down or there is a mix up in coverage or a missed tackle does the receiver just take the 10 because he got the first down and no one touched him? i'd bench him and the FB that took the one yard. we've seen right here what we can do in between the 20's. no team in the history of the game won because they just moved the chains and held the ball longer. [/quote:3d043psu]
I didn't say he would just stop and not gain as much as he could thats just retarded, but the play isn't designed to realistically score it is designed to get a first down or to set up a shorter down and distance.Yeah if all the defenders fell down on every play we could score at will and if the queen had balls she'd be the king. [/quote:3d043psu]
that still doesn't mean that that play is only designed for 1 yard. i know my playbook isn't full of plays designed for 1yd.- one for 2 yds.- one for 3 yds......... there are many queens out there with balls. [/quote:3d043psu]
Actually the OCs all have their charts on what plays to call on a particular down and distance, so if there is a need to gain a certain amount of yards just to move the chains, thats what they call.So if they know a certain play has a high probability of gaining the yards needed they use that one. Well everyone except BA ,he couldn't seem to grasp the concept.

 

quoting theSteelDeal: "Actually the OCs all have their charts on what plays to call on a particular down and distance, so if there is a need to gain a certain amount of yards just to move the chains, thats what they call.So if they know a certain play has a high probability of gaining the yards needed they use that one. Well everyone except BA ,he couldn't seem to grasp the concept."

That lack certainly cost us the Super Bowl last year & the 2nd Ravens loss this season & the Denver WC game this year. In each case if we had gotten 1 critical 1st down, we likely would have iced each game. IMHO.