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The Price for Wallace is going up

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by SteelByDesign, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    Now I'm ignoring Megatron's contract because he's in a league of his own, but the deals given to Vincent Jackson and Desean Jackson should probably be comparable to those two guys, and wallace's agent could probably reasonably argue that Wallace deserves more than either of them... Here's their contracts with their production (I only have 2 years since Wallace has only been a full time starter that long).

    Vincent Jackson - 5 years, 55.5 million
    2010: 14 catches 248 yards, 3 TDs (in 5 games)
    2011: 60 catches, 1106 yards, 9 TDs

    In terms of production, Wallace and Jackson were VERY similar last season. I also see them as similar types of players in that they're both streaky... Have one huge game, and disappear the next, although I think Jackson is a more extreme case than Wallace in that regard. Wallace is much younger though so deserves more than Jackson does who's on the downside of his career where Wallace is just hitting his prime.
    In short: Wallace is younger, better all around (more catches)

    Desean Jackson - 5 years, 51 million
    2010: 47 receptions, 1056 yards, 6 TDs
    2011: 58 receptions, 961 yards, 4 TDs

    Desean Jackson is more like Wallace is terms of his role and size, but Wallace has better production and hasn't been the headache for his team that Jackson has. Jackson has had issues with drops but even worse mental gaffes on the field. The Eagles really weren't going to get Jackson any cheaper than this since he was getting 9 mil on the franchise tag. The one plus of Jackson over Wallace is he is an elite punt returner, although maybe not anymore since he's making 10 mil a year.
    In short: Wallace is better teammate, better all around (way more catches), way more touchdowns, not a punt returner

    Mike Wallace
    2010: 60 receptions, 1257 yards, 10 TDs
    2011: 72 receptions, 1193 yards, 8 TDs




    Looking at the market, Wallace probably could get 10-12 mil a year on the open market next year... not good for us.
     
  2. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    Your right. But, no way the Steelers can pay or even would pay the kind of money Megatron got. The WR are making more bucks than the QB's are.
     
  3. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    lol DUDE! read the first sentence of my post. I thought I laid out all the facts to make my point clear.
     
  4. Jim90

    Jim90 Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it, this works out perfectly for Pitts.. So far we know the guy can run straight lines, until he gets met half way down the field ( then he disappears in the 2nd half of the season)
    He can't block, he doesn't fight for the ball, he ran a few routes in the middle of the field and did ok.. He still has a lot of holes in his game.( he isn't worth $6-9 mil) If he's going to try his heart out, this will be the year to see what the guy is made of.. If we see the same crap in the 2nd half, we won't have to worry about losing the guy. We'll just sign another 100 meter dash guy.

    Antonio Brown is the guy we want he does it all, save the coin for him. ( yeah I know Wallace opens things up for Brown, we could get another sprinter to do the same)
     
  5. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    it seems no team wants to give up that #1 pick and a whole lot of money for him. if they don't , we will not work out a deal for him this year. i'm betting anyway keeping him at that 2.4 mil. tender. brown may get a new deal before wallace in that case. i could see this happening. :cool:
     
  6. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    Man the hate around here on Wallace amazes me. I'd like to see one real example of Wallace not fighting for the ball when he has an opportunity to. He's not the type to go up and get it, it's just not his skill set, and I'm fine with that. Wallace is much more than a one trick pony at this point. He doesn't have the ability to make a guy miss like Brown or Santonio did, but I'd say he's still above average... He's also not afraid to go over the middle.

    What's with the "he can't block," again I'd like to see some evidence of this. Is he Hines Ward? No, definitely not, but who is?

    I'm amazed at how we get a receiver that's worked his way up to being a pro bowl talent in just 3 seasons, and people bash him so horribly.
     
  7. DSteelerCT

    DSteelerCT Well-Known Member

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    Hope he gets an offer he can't refuse and we get a #1. No way I ever want the Steelers to pay $10M/yr for a WR, nor do I think they will. D and V Jackson....are you serious?? Rather than lose him next year, let's get something in return.
     
  8. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Wallace is hated, but us fans will try to find a reason if Wallace does go to another team, to develop a reason why it was the right move.
     
  9. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    I have no issue with people saying that he's not worth the money. If we got a first rounder in return and used the money saved to extend Brown next year that would be the best case scenario (we probably can't afford both)...

    But to act like he's some bum is just naive in my opinion.
     
  10. troybellringer55

    troybellringer55 Well-Known Member

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    Hey he never got caught with doobies. Unlike Santonio. But the down fall of Wallace, he never seemed to step it up when the game was on the line. I think his biggest play at the end of game was against the Packers his rookie year. But, Santonio in big games usually stepped up his game. In 2008 he was huge in the Playoffs and the Superbowl. But, he just couldn't keep out of trouble. But, his play as not been as good witht he Jets.
     
  11. TheSteelHurtin2188

    TheSteelHurtin2188 Well-Known Member

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    The first and only one that comes to mind is the super bowl where collins picked it. Both of them had the ball amd if i remeber correctly wallace actually cuaght the ball amd had it taken
     
  12. bigdaddyK

    bigdaddyK Well-Known Member

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    ope he will cost 2.7 mill this season 9 mill next with a franchise so 6 mill for the next 2 seasons. That will give us plenty if time tosee how he fits in haley offense and by that time the cap will be up alot more. Brown is gonna get them moeny tha Hampton and Mendy got this season with one retiring the other coming back cheap cause of the torn Acl.
     
  13. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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    Franchise tag for next year will probably be closer to 11 mil for a receiver, with Calvin's contract. Ave of top 5, and Calvin's is there at 16, a couple more in the 10-11 catagory.
    I'm not at all concerned about the salary cap, because as far as i know it doesn;'t matter until the last day of the preseason. Until that day we can be over it by a ton, doesn't matter.
     
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    There's lesser receivers than Wallace getting big money Garcon, Robinson. Wallace won't sign a long term deal less than what some of those other receivers got. I think he stays next season then if the Steelers don't sign him long term he is gone.
     
  15. SSylvester

    SSylvester Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy if he stays and happy with a first rounder if he gets signed away. Spread the wealth to keep more players around than try to match a pricey market and possibly end up overpaying. Steelers have a good track record of rewarding players so Wallace can get money here if he is interested in staying a Steeler but if his top motivation is the $$ then I don't mind if he moves on.
     
  16. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you 100%. The hate is seemingly manufactured out of nowhere. Someone just said any sprinter can open things up for Brown the same as Wallace. What, like Ted Ginn? How'd he work out? Is he opening things up for anyone in SF? No. Any number of super fast guys don't amount to jack squat at WR. Wallace can and does run all the routes, catch the ball, and does it well. He can run after the catch, he gets open like nobody's business. He actually draws consistent double coverage. His yards would be way higher and his TDs would be doubled if his QB could hit him in stride.

    But you mention the blocking. In watching him closely, I've noticed he gives the worst effort out of our WRs. Ward and Sanders go all out and are very good, Cotchery is behind them, Brown is sort of lazy, and Wallace is even lazier. That said, all that means is that he's not living up to the Steeler standard for WR blocking which has been set higher than any other standard in the league. TONS of receivers in the league don't give effort blocking. If he was on another team, I doubt anyone would notice. And he will try if he's right at the point of attack. It's not like he's the WR equivalent Deion Sanders out there, jumping out of the way. If a ball carrier is running behind him, he'll try and block who he can. He just doesn't go out of his way to make a hit like we're used to seeing. And plus, it's rare that his block is at the point of attack, so it rarely comes up.
     
  17. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    right now the price is 2,7 for one year , let's start from here
     
  18. Bleedsteel

    Bleedsteel

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    I like Mike!
    And I would like to keep him long term.
    However, I don`t run the team, and even if I did, I would probably buy into the Rooney`s philosophy of not spending crazy cash on recievers.
    One of the articles I read recently(probably on the Gazette`s site), brought up a point, very clearly, that I hadn`t thought of in quite this way...
    To paraphrase, the author asked what reciever we have EVER had, that played his whole career here...
    So Far, Hines Ward is it!!!(until he signs with another team...)
    There must have been a disclaimer, about, since the 70`s, or something, `cause I am pretty sure Stallworth, or Swann, never played anywhere else, but since then?
    Our recent history, just suggests, that we will not pay big money for a reciever...
    Or most positions, for that matter..
    Yeah, they broke the bank for Ben, and they have payed a lot to keep some defensive talent, that I don`t think they would have done a decade ago, or more...
    In general, the Rooney`s are a fairly frugal group, who will spend more money nowadays, than their past would show, just because they realize that the price of keeping prime players has gone up, but they still tend to look at players as fairly easily replaceable commodities, once those players get ridiculously expensive to keep.
    Actually, I am shocked at some of the contracts they have given in the last 10 years or so... It`s just out of character, for this team, to pay what they need to, even when they decide they really want to keep a certain player...
    Their history, is more of... "we`ll just get a replacement through the draft/undrafted free agents market"...
    That might be, why, for the first time, in a long time, they are really struggling to get under the salay cap. Restructuring, cutting players, etc.. (and yet they bring back Hampton. Just don`t get that, except that they don`t have much else)...
    Anyhow... I`m rambling.
    I also read an interesting thread on here, about how, The TEAM, actually, has the leverage on Wallace, at this point, to sign a long term(5 years ish) contract, Because he is pretty much gambling, that he doesn`t get hurt, or have a less productive season next year, and sitting out, would only hurt his future value, when he COULD take a solid "guaranteed"(yeah, I know no contracts are guaranteed, but still...) big contract right now, if he signed with us right now, for the next 5 years or so.
    I forget which poster said this, on which thread about Wallace, but it made sense.
    Also, the math in one of the previous posts in this thread, made no sense to me...
    "2.7 million this season + 9 million Franchise tag next year= 6million"... ?huh?...
    It was already pointed out, that the tag will be higher next year(Thanx, Megatron), and, even if it wasn`t, How does 2.whatever mil, + 9mil, = less than 11 mil?!?!
    My hope is, that we sign him to a "reasonable" 5 yr contract this year.
    But not at the expense, of losing Brown, next year...
    Hate that money plays such a big part in this "game"... :(
     
  19. Jim90

    Jim90 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not, his job is to catch the ball not every pass is going to be perfect, there's going to be times where he'll have to jump up and rip it out of the defenders hands. He hasn't shown that type of fire, he's more of a finesse type of a receiver.
     
  20. noitall0605

    noitall0605 Well-Known Member

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    My only issue with Wallace is his ass was dogging in when Brown started getting attention. I think he shelled up. I was at the Broncos Steelers game, and more than a few times his ass walked back to the huddle (dont think he was hurt) , he put the offense behind on the play clock (I hate seeing the Steelers rushing at the line) and one time they had to call a timeout which was pretty costly.

    You dont pay your WR because he on a team with a great QB.

    Santonio with Ben > Santonio with Sanchez
    Fitz with Warner > Fitz with Skelton
    Deon Branch with Brady > Deon Branch with Hassleback and Seneca Wallace
    Alvin Harper with Aikman> Alvin Harper in TB with Dilfer
    Brandon Marshall with Cutler and in Pro Bowl with good QB's > Brandon Marshall with Chad Henne
    Wes Welker with Brady> Wes Welker with Cassell, Gus Frerotte, Joey Harrington, Dante Culpepper, Cleo Lemon
    Steve Smith with Cam Newton> Steve Smith with Jimmy Claussen, Matt Moore

    So no, Wallace not worth that kind of money. Ever think why the Steelers had so many average WR's before Ben, now they strike gold pretty often?
     
  21. freakfontana

    freakfontana

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    "2.7 million this season + 9 million Franchise tag next year= 6million"... ?huh?...
    It was already pointed out, that the tag will be higher next year(Thanx, Megatron), and, even if it wasn`t, How does 2.whatever mil, + 9mil, = less than 11 mil?!?!
    My hope is, that we sign him to a "reasonable" 5 yr contract this year.
    But not at the expense, of losing Brown, next year...
    Hate that money plays such a big part in this "game"... :([/quote]


    2,7 +9 milion is 11,7 for 2 years
    average 6 milion for one year
     
  22. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    Dude, 9 times out of 10 when he doesn't bring it in it's because it's severely under thrown. When do you ever see him in a jump ball situation?
     
  23. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    BleedSteel... paragraphs are your friend.
     
  24. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    It is very similar to Basketball,your best jump ball guys are not your fastest guys....Harder to stop and plant and get vertical when your running at full speed....He also is simply not tall enough or strong enough to win jump balls...He will never be that type of WR and that's kool with me....However he can become more physical off the line and run sharper crisper routes...It would also be nice for him to become a better blocker IMO..

    But to expect him to become a leaper,ball snatcher, post up type of guy is simply wrong...
     
  25. SteelByDesign

    SteelByDesign Well-Known Member

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    ball snatcher... ha...

    But you're right, there's not a "burner" in the league that can stop and go up for the ball. Desean Jackson, Percy Harvin, DHB, Johnny Knox, etc. They are deep threats because they can get past you, and you have to hit them in stride.

    Guys like Megatron, Vincent Jackson, Kenny Britt, Malcolm Floyd, etc. are deep threats too but they can go up and get the ball, rather than run past you.

    Randy Moss was a special once in an era receiver because he was one of the few that could do both. To expect Wallace to be that is just unfair and silly.
     

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