The official 2023 NFL draft thread (no spoilers)

poches profondes

 

I read it. I had already heard the quotes. The difference in our interpretations is you think it would have been a devastating tragedy if they hadn’t gotten Washington and I know better. So did the Steelers. Battle or one of a few other guys also would have been good picks there, but Washington was the better value even though he was more of a want than a need. They took a calculated risk and it worked perfectly. Your approach would have cost them Nick Herbig.

 

Was just there last week on way to the burgh!

 

Riding the Bernier Express and Glacier Express in Switzerland are on my near to do list possibly September 2024

I was to attend a wedding on
Lake como twice canceled because of Covid so we are playing catch up

 

What does your wife look like

 

Operating Under the Influence?

 

You’re bad at reading minds and interpretation, maybe comprehension.

I think we both agree that they made a calculated decision and made the trade.

You insinuated it was part of a plan because of how they read the board 13 picks later and how other teams would likely go so that the Steelers could target him at 93.

I felt differently, and from all accounts the Steelers and all other teams pulled back and let him slip vs. reward based on knee issues. NOT because it was part of a “plan”. I said (and you staunchly disagreed) that they/we got lucky. They never used the word “luck” but Kahn said “very very surprised” and “didn’t expect him to be there” so semantics aside yeah, everyone involved was LUCKY.

Who knows how or where they would have valued him if it weren’t for the medical rumors. I don’t read people’s level of excitement of the Benton pick vs. Washington at nearly the same intensity. Not because Benton isn’t good or good value, but because it’s *almost you against the universe of how Washington was valued before this medical issue became such a talking point. And yes, that talking point was not a media conversation until he started to slide and the chestnut leaked.

So take the L and go attempt to play smartest guy in the room with someone else. Maybe you’re a decent writer, but those reading skills need to be sharpened up. Please don’t keep trying to drag me on this because dressing you down doesn’t make me feel good.

 

?

 

Better than me

 

Not trying to interfere, but I think the Benton pick is fantastic, and great value....exactly same as the Washington pick in My eyes. Both I thought would be long gone before We got them.

 

I really like the Benton pick. Look at my last post in his welcome to thread.

I’m just pointing out the media salivating quite a bit about one more than the other. They were both pick later than projected, but I find it hard to believe Washington would have tumbled nearly that far if it weren’t for the med rumor.

Some people seem to Monday QB and see it as some form of validation. They can take a curtsy all they like.

I feel more justified, not just with the pick, but by so many things I’ve heard Tomlin and the Kahn Artist say and beat writers expound on post pick. It feels like I picked their brains a couple weeks ago and have been making their case for them in this fan site.

 

I'm not in the habit of taking an L when I'm right, so no thank you.

So much for you patting yourself on the back for being civil about all this. I guess that is the frustration you feel while trying to prop up a poor argument like yours. You are deluding yourself if you think you have dressed anybody down or won anything in this discussion. I've got facts on my side. You have speculation.

I don't have to read your mind regarding Washington. Sure, I engaged in a little bit of hyperbole there, but your desperation to have the Steelers draft him is all over this board.

Yes, I disagreed with the implication that it was all luck. You backed away from that, but there is always going to be some luck involved in a situation like that, but they had a list of guys they were comfortable with at 93 and he was at the top of it. That means their plan worked to perfection.

The bottom line is the Steelers got it right. They were right to pass on him at 32. They were right to pass on him at 49. They were right to trade down rather than take him at 80. The proof is that he is a Steeler. No matter how good he is from here on out, that won't change. That is how teams succeed in the draft, by getting the players they want as late as possible to maximize value. Sure, sometimes a team will get burned and have to settle for another player, but that's part of the game, too.

Doing things your way in the second round would have cost them Joey Porter, Jr., the cornerback help they need. Or it would have cost them Benton, the youth they need on the defensive line. Doing it in the third round would have cost them Nick Herbig, the depth they need at outside linebacker. Happily for us, the Steelers knew better. I'm very glad that their understanding of how the draft works so vastly outstrips yours.

 

I would be. They didn't draft him to play tackle. They drafted him to play TE. He is gonna gonna block a lot lol but I highly doubt the plan is to make him a T

 

It came out on a podcast that it depends on how the line performs and how he adapts to tight end. I didn’t go back and look but supposedly he was used at tackle some with UGA. But I agree and hope he is used as tight end.

 

Nice curtsy… We’re all lucky the rumor worked in our favor. Credit to Omar for not pushing the luck any further and making the last second grasp.

Thanks for acknowledging how desperate my desire has been for this team to land him and hope his services and their plans come together for peak production. I’m just glad the wild scenarios I argued for during that span with yinz sound eerily familiar to lots of the paid prognosticators out there. There was just a few of us in this room with much of the beliefs. The train is now full with a party raging up here in the bar cart and I’m sure glad you jumped on the caboose just in time. Almost makes it seem like you were here all along. Well done…

 

I wished that stetson had last to the 7th. And, I thought that they would've had the guy from Army on speed dial after the draft.

 

His value is at tight end. He is a strong blocker at that position, though apparently his technique needs some work. He is also athletic enough to be a threat as a receiver, if a limited one.

 

Nice try. You wanted him at 32 or 49. We now know for certain that would have been a mistake, so you were wrong about that. I didn't want to spend a pick that high on a want rather than a need, especially a player who seems limited as a receiver. I was right. I never said they shouldn't draft him at all, just that they had bigger needs and certainly shouldn't be taking him as high as you wanted him. The rest is you trying to muddy the waters to cover for the fact that you were wrong.

 

We can’t go back in time and reframe history, but the whole Steelers nation saw holes everywhere and we still didn’t (and couldn’t) address them all with the limited number of picks we had unless even more trades.

They still didn’t get a strong safety, or ILB, WR, QB, C. Herbig as good as his tape and rep is is not a shoe in at edge. Could they move him to ILB or even SS, who knows, but he can’t play all 3 positions and not sure if he’s the right fit at any of them. He’s a very good football player, but his size makes him a question mark.

So, with that said, you can verify or deny, that I believe you’d still rather they addressed SS, ILB, or Edge, with a better fit player from the 93rd pick rather the outstanding TE prospect they chose who’s ranking was multiple rounds better than where they landed him due only to medical rumor concerns, and not his projected value.

I’m thinking you’d rather a different player than what our front office did.

Sure, I am not going to back pedal and say that I was wanting him much earlier. And I stand firmly that they/we got extremely lucky (and that’s still putting it mildly) and not chosen where he belonged. His career will tell us otherwise if he’s given the right opportunity to fulfill his potential. Not where he was actually picked.

That why for fun ESPN and football websites do that fun exercise in re-drafts years later, because hindsight and reality tell the actual story and not what happened in the moment.

Don’t tell me that you think if teams were to do the draft all over again they would still sit on Tom Brady and AB until the 6th round??? No, because they all got something WRONG on the day and we’re LUCKY where they were chosen, NOT correct.

 

Herbig is not moving to strong safety. Come on. There is no guarantee for any of these guys, but one thing is certain. The Steelers are better off getting both Washington and Herbig rather than just Washington.

I have said all along that I would have preferred a safety at 93, but I am very happy with Washington as well. I posted that when it happened and I have stood by it since then. That wasn't a problem with the player. That was wanting them to address the bigger need and seeing strong options available to them at the time.

You wanted him at 32. You wrote as much. You certainly wanted him at 49 and at 80. You keep arguing that they should have gotten him sooner. You were wrong about all that. They were right to wait.

Your last paragraph is yet another misrepresentation of what I wrote. Please stop doing that. You are using hindsight, information the teams didn't have during the draft. They were right to take those guys late because that maximized their value.

Want to be in my fantasy baseball league? I'd love to compete with guys who think you should take your sleepers in the first or second round.

 

Yeah, I wanted him at 32 if…IF… we didn’t have a better option with Gonzales or Witherspoon. I weighed the scales with Porter. I still probably would have taken over Porter, but I 1000% why anyone else would see otherwise. Because of the absolute need for a CB and the not “need” for TE. Because there was still great CB options due to the positional depth vs. Washington’s freakish unicorn possibilities. I used the two words many times when speaking of him specifically, not other TE’s.

What I was saying and hoping was that the team would see his value at transitioning to a different style of offense as what I thought and still think would make the team better than just a very good CB was going to provide at that selection because of the CB availability likely at 49 and beyond.

Clearly the team felt otherwise because of how it shook out and combined with the familiarity of JPJ. Nobody can prove it, but I think that played into it in a big way. I bet if it was any other CB other than JPJ, Gonzales, or Witherspoon, they would have made the trade at 32 to get another pick. But who he is with the entire story, familiarity, ranking etc. they just made a great educated calculation with the player despite the value they otherwise could have gained by dropping a few spots. They got “their guy” and didn’t push for more *possible* draft capital value. And I’m glad they did.

Look, it played out in a possible story book fashion. It couldn't have gone better than anyone could project. They made some epic chess moves that could have not work out as well. I take nothing away from the war room at all with their agile plans. But I’m completely cemented in the fact that I think there was a near equal amount of luck too. It seems like you think less was far lesser of a factor. I beg to differ.

It was EXTREMELY lucky that they found a trade partner in an unlikely conference team with the Pats who wanted to stick it to the Jets so we could land Jones. Kahn executed a great play/plan to get “their guy” there or the Steelers would have lost out. Luck and chess skill were both equally at hand. I hope you don’t disagree on that too. Do you…? Luck and execution?

 

Again, if it’s not clear, I wanted them to draft Washington at 32 and better at 49. 93 wasn’t even a possibility in a fairy tale scenario. Perfect example of life is stranger than fiction.

Yes, I stated “my plan” was a huge long shot and had little faith, despite my desire, and arguments, that it would actually happen. Obviously the team moved in the more likely scenario most thought (and hoped) it would. I get that, it happened! But what is truly wild is that it mostly worked out for the majority of people in your camp, and still happened for the minority in my camp. Truly amazing and combining the two makes this team much stronger today in my opinion than even if they passed on Washington entirely and went your route with a SS or other position. That’s up to you to decide.

I even understand your rational, because they are still weak at SS, ILB and edge despite Herbig. And I like that guy too, a lot, I like his upside if he outplays his measurables. I love having brothers on the team. I don’t think there is a way to quantify how that helps them both and make the team better, but I think it does. How much??? Even coaches can’t put a scientific value on it.

I still think this team has some players on the roster that they could move like CB Witherspoon and LG Dotson to hopefully find a SS or real edge some other team is deep with. Even a true center. Myles Jack is still out there and if he’s healthy again at 27 years old and could come down on his contract a bit, I would absolutely love him back to bolster the ILB room.

I don’t think this team is done yet with the roster and I think we could make a significant jump that spells out in two more wins and a genuine playoff threat on paper with the roster.

KFP’s bump is one X-factor and Canada’s system scheme is even more of an X-factor. If those two things develop forward in even a moderate way, I think we are a threat in the AFC and Evan stronger against the few NFC challengers THIS year. The more distant future is way too hard to predict.

 

I think you are overestimating his potential as a receiver. I hope I am wrong about that, but he looks more like a blocker who can catch some passes, not a guy who can provide a diverse route tree.

I have said all along that there was luck involved. Of course, it was a mixture of execution and luck. I agree that if Porter was gone, they might have traded pick No. 32. Honestly, I wasn't that impressed by what the Titans traded to get Pick No. 33. All they got was an exchange of third rounders and a third-round pick next year. I think the Steelers wanted to recoup that day three selection they traded to move up for Jones. I guess it also depends how much they liked the remaining corners, such as Cam Smith, because it was a position they had to address early. I don't think Washington was ever a consideration for them in the second round.

There was definitely some luck involved in the Jones pick. If the Jets don't exchange first-round picks with the Packers in the Rodgers deal, it doesn't happen and the Steelers probably take Porter at 17.