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The Modern Steel Curtain?!

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by AskQuestionsLater, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. Yes. Despite Different Era's, They Are Generating As Much Havoc.

    3 vote(s)
    7.9%
  2. No. This Defense Is Great but The Steel Curtain Was Legendary.

    35 vote(s)
    92.1%
  1. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Hello fellow brothers and sisters! AskQuestionsLater here, bringing you another piece of Steelers related news that I thought you would like to read up on. Personally speaking, I LOVE this defense overall. Vastly superior than those 2012-2018 years, better than 2010 and I would even put them up against that legendary 2008 team (yes, I said that).



    However, what about other legendary defenses?! The 2002 Bucs or 2000 Ravens?! The 1990 Eagles based on pure stats?! I will let you decide. What about the Steelers of the 70s; 1974 to be specific?! Well.. that is what we will dive into today. As always though; a disclaimer.



    These written statements by the author do not reflect nor are shared opinions of members of TheSteelersFans Message Board, Staff Members and/or Site Administrator.




    The 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers; start of a Dynasty. Quite a bit of memorable names and events from that team the same. However, argubaly the biggest point that I took when I first read about them was not just a culture predicated on winning but one that was built from the tough nosed, blue collar mentality of Pittsburgh. To that end, what better way to sell this to the fans of the Steel City at the time than to construct a team built on determination, toughness, perseverance and grit?! Two important area's of this idelogoy fell into these two categories;


    1.) Running Game


    2.) Defense




    With these two in hand, Pittsburgh built the foundation and would go on to win their first Super Bowl by defeating the Minnesota Vikings in Super Bowl IX by the score of 16-6. Today though, we will not be focusing on the running game. Today, we focus on the birth of what was to become what is widely reputed as the greatest Defense in history and how today's Steelers measure up to their predecessors. With that, let's get started.




    Star Players:



    I understand I am entering VERY subjective territory here but please, hear me out. When I say "Star Players" I am not going to state whether or not said players will be or should be in Canton. I am only pointing out those players that were or are key contributions within their respective seasons.


    Now that said statements are out of the way, let us take a look at both teams best defensive players. First up, the 1974 Steelers;



    Joe Greene


    Ernie Holmes


    Dwight White


    L.C. Greenwood


    Jack Lambert


    Jack Ham


    Andy Russell


    Donnie Shell


    Mel Blount


    J.T. Thomas





    As much as I would enjoy analyzing all these players, I am 100% certain that, due to this being a Steelers site, all of the aforementioned need no true introduction from me. Nevermind being fruitless, all these players were way before my time. Any form of praise I would have for them would likely be disingenuous anyway. Therefore, I think it is best that, if you do not know the aforementioned, "America's Game: 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers" is a good starting point for those of you who like being inquisitive about learning some of the beginning roots of that defense. I understand some might find this to be a cop out move but the fact of the matter is anything that I would have detailed has likely been detailed anyway in great detail in it of itself. Just check out that video and you will see.



    Total count of Star Players: 10




    Now, for the 2019 Steelers. The modern day kids;



    Cameron Heyward


    Javon Hargrave


    T.J Watt


    Bud Dupree


    Devin Bush Jr.


    Joe Haden


    Steven Nelson


    Cameron Sutton


    Mike Hilton


    Minkah Fitzpatrick





    I think it is safe to say that, due to the evolution of the league, having a good secondary as just as important now as it was then. Major difference though is that there is a lot of sub package football in today's game than it was in 1974 and nevermind the 1970s as a whole. To start out, Cameron Heyward and Javon Hargrave provide the interior disruption while Bud and T.J. are the game wreckers on the outside. As a whole, this front four can generate heat more often than not by itself.



    Of course though, as many of us know, what good is a pass rush without good coverage?! Now, since the AFL-NFL Merger up until 2013, the cornerback position has been revered as being the most important position within the secondary. After the year 2013 however, NFL Teams took a bit of a different approach; Free Safety. Due to the NFL's more increased emphasis on personnel weaknesses in game that historically has done that, the next evolution of NFL Defense's will come from this position. Minkah Fitzpatrick is likely to be the future torch bearer of the position as Earl Thomas is the current. Even if the corner position is not as dominant as it once was, it still holds importance; Joe Haden and Steven Nelson being two primary forms of evidence as to why this is.



    Both players are what I constitute as "Lockdown Corners" as opposes to "Shutdown Corners". The latter term historically meant that said player could neutralize that side of the field regardless of the receiving target while the former term refers to players who can neutrailze the top receiving option for that team. For the most part this season, both Haden and Nelson have formed the leagues most underrated corner duo. While they have given up some catches, very seldom do they give up points.



    Now, rounding out this defenses team are two players who are a part of this new age philosophy of sub package football. Mike Hilton and Cameron Sutton are unique because either are often tasked with handling the slot; more so Mike than anything. Again, while Mike has given up some points, those points have been very few and far between. Overall, with the inclusion of Joe and Steven, these four have been stellar all season despite much of the praise being on Minkah Fitzpatrick.



    Total count of Star Players: 10




    Now that we have all the major players on board, let us talk about the big part; stats.



    Numbers Don't Lie But Contain Hidden Truths:




    Prior to 1978, the NFL only had 14 games each team could play. That means there were only 14 times a defense could impose its will. That being said, the 1974 Steelers had no issues doing that. As stated before, the 1974 Steelers kickstarted a name that was forever synonymous within the NFL Community; the Steel Curtain. That said, let us see just how well the Steel Curtain fared in its "inaugural season" (The term was originally issued in 1971 via a Radio Contest from WTAE).


    *** All stats courtesy of Pro Football Reference ***



    Steel Curtain:



    Points Per Game: 2nd (189)


    Passing Touchdowns Allowed: T-7th (rank 17th per the site otherwise) ( 14 TDs Allowed)


    Passing Yards: 1st (1466)


    INT: 3rd (25)


    Interception Rate: T-2nd (2nd per the site otherwise) (7.4%)


    Fumble Recoveries: 1st (22)


    Takeaways: 1st (47)


    1st Downs Allowed Against The Pass: 1st (83)


    Sacks: 1st (52)


    Sack Percentage: 1st (13.3%)


    Sack Yards: 1st (406 Total Yards)


    Completion Percentage Against: 1st (43.4%)


    Rushing Yards: 6th (1608)


    1st Downs Allowed Against The Run: 5th (87)


    Rush Yards Per Attempt: T-2nd (rank 3rd per the site otherwise) (3.4)


    Rushing Touchdowns Allowed: T-2nd (rank 2nd per the site otherwise) (7)






    Man oh man. Those days were different way back when compared to now to us young folk weren't they?! Keep in mind that the passing game was not as big of a component today as it was back then; sub packages doubly so and no less. Interesting aspect I did find though. I initially thought that the Run Defense would be superior than the Pass Defense. I would have thought that the Run Defense would be better overall due to the fact that the Steelers that I have watched always prided themselves on stopping the run and therefore thought that the progenitors of it all in the form of the Steel Curtain were usually the leagues best. Well they are... but just one of the best as the Dallas Cowboys were the best in that season.



    The biggest aspect here is takeaways. Pittsburgh ranks number one overall here as shown above. What is interesting here is the amount of interceptions. That 1974 team ranks third just behind the Arch Enemy Raiders and the Kansas City Chiefs. I will explain more as to why this intrigues me later on but for now, let us just note the information above. Clearly the 1974 Steelers prided themselves on getting after the QB and using that pressure to generate turnovers. This belief is a common occure in what is known as the Expectancy Theory. The belief in Chuck Noll's idea is that more pressure and duress for the Quarterback will lead to a higher percentage of errant passes that could equate into turnovers. Many of us Steelers fans see this very same ideology being carried on by Tomlin's team today as it was over 40 years ago. I will say this though; 13.3% via the sack percentage was an ABSURD number back then as the closest one was 10.4 held by the Los Angeles Rams; nearly 3% better than the next closest team! :eek:



    Speaking of Tomlin's teams, let us dive into his 2019 interation. Keep in mind though that we can only judge 13 of 16 games currently.



    2019 Steelers:



    Points Per Game: 6th (242)


    Passing Touchdowns Allowed: 13th (rank 19th per the site otherwise) (21 TDs Allowed)


    Passing Yards: 5th (2727)


    INT: 2nd (18)


    Interception Rate: 2nd (4.1%)


    Fumble Recoveries: 2nd (15)


    Takeaways: 1st (33)


    1st Downs Allowed Against The Pass: 9th (147)


    Sacks: 1st (48)


    Sack Percentage: 1st (9.8%)


    Sack Yards: 2nd (310 Total Yards)


    Completion Percentage Against: 9th (62%)


    Rushing Yards: 9th (1315)


    1st Downs Allowed Against The Run: 19th (80)


    Rush Yards Per Attempt: T-4th (rank 6th per the site otherwise) (3.8)


    Rushing Touchdowns Allowed: T-1st (rank 2nd per the site otherwise) (5)





    I did not realize how inefficient this defense was when it came to stopping opponents from getting the First Down through the ground. The overall rankings for the 2019 Run Defense is top 10 but the inability to stop opponents from obtaining First Downs is well below that. Beyond that though, very good overall across the board.



    As you can however, for both of these great defenses, there stats are more of an indication of the times they played in; the 1970s featuring more 5 step drops under the gun vs. today's RPO/Shotgun bonanza. Reverse the situation and you find what each era personified; the 1970s; 1974 mind you, was predominately a Rushing Attack based league while 2019 is built for the pass. Each era had different philosophies of scoring points and each era had its own set of challenges on how to combat those teams from doing so.



    Now, this leads me to the highlight of this little "Threadicle" of my mine; a post on Twitter which REALLY made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Here it is below;








    Just... ugh. I am willing to forgive the aspect that Pittsburgh only has been playing 13 games. That said though and, as I stated before, different era's. There is a reason why defenses like the Steel Curtain of the 1970s are so revered and feared though. Even within those era's, their impact on the game was IMMENSE. To be a legendary defense, that defense needs to go above and beyond many, and I mean MANY statistical categories. Sadly however, as we sit here currently, this 2019 Steelers team does not do that thus far.


    Again though, as I said, only 13 total games have been played. Anything can happen between now and the end of the 2019 NFL Regular Season. That being said, do not expect the likes of San Francisco, Tampa Bay (yes, they lead the league in Run Defense) and New England falter behind. Not likely to happen.




    Final Notes:



    When I first read the tweet above, I initially thought the following;


    "No way. C'mon now guys. It is difficult for me to believe that this 2019 team could compare to ANY of the 70s Steel Curtain teams and nevermind the 1974 one."


    After doing some more thorough research, I was correcr in my thought process. However, I did learn some new things though; the 1974 Steel Curtain not being as invincible as I once thought given what I was told in great detail. This does not mean they are not legendary any less so... just not impervious to any offensive scheme of the times.



    Even so, comparing era's truly was an eye opener for me. I understood that the statistics themselves would look different. I did not expect this much of a difference however. Within that same vein, I also did not expect this level of a paradigm within the philosophical shift of the NFL from 1974 until now.



    Overall, I am very pleased to say that I personally received new information on doing such research. That said, as much as I enjoyed it, the data analysis is still incomplete. Suffice it to say, I will have to look back on this when the season concludes.



    Conclusion:


    At the end of the day, I believe that, no matter the era, great defenses are great defenses. That is without debate. What causes debate however is when great defenses are put up against historic defenses. This is not including various circumstances either; rules especially so and chief among them. One aspect that is without debate?! Great defenses overall are a ton of fun to watch.




    That will do it for me everyone!! Thank you for reading and I hope you enjoyed!! For those of you looking for the complete comparison, said comparison will come shortly after the conclusion of the 2019 NFL Regular Season as the data needed at present is unavailable at this time.



    Until next time everyone, thank you again and I will see you soon!!





    Go Steelers!! :herewego:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. steelersfan35

    steelersfan35 Well-Known Member

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    What about the 2009 Steelers?
     
  3. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Thank you for pointing this out!! I meant to but sadly it had slipped my mind. A bit too much Craft Beer in the system.:drinks:


    Unfortunately, Pro Football Reference does not allow the user to access those stats by a certain time and instead does it all at once. Do not fret though, I will include them to the final list for the comparison! :)
     
  4. Thigpen82

    Thigpen82 Bitter optimist

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    This year's team doesn't have Glen Edwards, though.

    Sorry, had to say it.
     
  5. The Glory Days

    The Glory Days Well-Known Member

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    This is an over simplified view and probably can/will be rebutted on many different angles, but here goes...

    I can't stack the current iteration of our D up against 2008-9 or especially the dynasty D because of the way the game was played back then. Running the ball was was more heavily emphasized and an effective running game usually equated to more wins, far more so in the dynasty era, but still held true after the turn of the millennium.

    "3 yards and a cloud of dust"

    Both iterations were highly succesful at stopping the run. That was their strength, stopping the emphasis of each and every team, and the league, for that matter.

    Fast forward to 2019. This is a pass-happy league. Our secondary is much improved, but is not there yet. When we don't get pressure on the qb, he is completing passes. Our secondary isn't good enough to shut down opposing passing attacks on a regular basis. They have been beneficiaries of TJ and an "on fire" Bud.

    I'm not knocking our defense or desecrating the good name of Minkah and his secondary. Just saying that those old defenses were great at shutting down the league's attack du jour. We aren't quite there yet. Another piece or two or positive development of the current roster might put us over the top and make me change my tune. But that won't happen this year.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Too early for comparisons between the two, let's see if this defense can get the team to the playoffs and win some games first.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Hilton and Sutton are star players?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey Thigpen82.

    I have posted this link several times here. If you like Glenn Edwards, as I do, then you will certainly appreciate the video highlight that I posted the link to below. Just a Freakin' Devastating hit. I cannot think of enough adjectives to describe how powerful and intense this hit was. I get so jacked up watching this play over and over. I am surprised that Gilliam's head did not become detached from his body on that hit. Now, that is the way that football is meant to be played. Could you imagine the penalties/fines/suspension, etc. that play would have drawn today. Take care and have a great day!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BihlRBPNVYI



    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  9. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    I love what this defense is doing and they are definitely elite as a unit....... That said, they are nowhere near as dominant as the '74 defense....
    Yes, both teams started 1-4 and went on an equal 9 game stretch, but the '74 defense also only gave up 28 points total during that run, including 5 shutouts..... No defense in the league has or ever will be that dominant again
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    When they have 4 SBs notched on their belt we have a discussion aql. Too early to match the legendary Steel Curtain.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. SteelinOhio

    SteelinOhio

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    I voted for the second option, but admit that the passing of time for the 1974 defense has continued to give that era even more status. It was an amazing defensive team, and of course worthy of the status, but a current team, even if just as good, doesn't have the time passing that makes it feel as legendary. So we'll see.
     
  12. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Beer is good

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    Add Mike Wagner, safety, he did make two pro bowls.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Steel Hog

    Steel Hog Well-Known Member

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    How many HOF'ers did the Steel Curtain have vs how many of current players does anyone actually think will get into the HOF? Can't believe this is even a valid discussion.This defense has been poor for how many years and because we are just now making things happen with a 7-5 record we are comparing this D with one of the best of all time? Really?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. STEELWINDS

    STEELWINDS

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    Hey AQL.

    Man, that '74 defense, which accomplished that feat in 1976, was COMPLETELY INSANE. I feel so fortunate to have been around to witness it. Like you stated: "No defense in the league has or ever will be that dominant again". Well, I would have to agree with you 99.9%. Only because none of know what will happen five minutes from now. Given that, your prediction is about as sure as a thing comes my friend. I know the reality is that no team, unless it is us (smile) of course will probably ever duplicate that performance. I actually, was watching some YouTube highlights for that 1976 season the other day. JUST AWESOME! If you do not mind me asking, were you around at that time to have witnessed such a historic run? If yes, Great! If not, YouTube it. Take care.

    STEELWINDS AKA The East Side Kid
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    IMO, not even the '85 Bears were as good as the Steel Curtain.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  16. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Fitzpatrick is the only player on this D with HOF potential. Haden and Heyward are great players but don't have the stats to make it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. santeesteel

    santeesteel

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    …….and, maybe, TJ if he stays healthy
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  18. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    The turnovers are a big part of why people are thrilled about this defense.
    But TO numbers can vary wildly.
    The 2017 Ravens had 34 defensive turnovers, but then only had 17 in 2018.
    Let's wait to see if the Steelers defense is as good next season.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Correct.
     
  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    They had years with the core of that group from 1974. The current defense could already be losing Dupree and Hargrave.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  21. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    I was very young, but I learned the game quickly and gained an immediate appreciation
     
  22. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    1976 defense posted 5 shutouts . we have yet to post 1 shutout. Lets see us stop a high powered offense
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  23. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    They actually did a decent job against the Ravens, the league's top scoring offense. They struggled early, but the Steelers' defense had control of that game late. Baltimore needed a ridiculous roughing the passer call to spark the drive for the tying field goal in regulation and Smith-Schuster's fumble handed them a field goal in overtime.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  24. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    I compared top defenses and how many shutouts and 20+ points they allowed.

    85 bears-24,28, 38 / 2 shutouts / 10 points allowed all postseason-SB

    2013 seahawks-22, 24, /0 shutout/ 40 points postseason-SB
    73 dolphins- 23,26 2 shutouts. 33 points postseason -SB
    2008 steelers -21,21,24,31 / 1 shutout / 61 points postseason -SB
    2015 broncos- 24,23,27,29,24,34 / no shutout, / 34 postseason -SB
    69 chiefs- 24, 22, 27, / 2 shutouts, /9 postseason points -SB
    86 giants- 31, 24. / 23 postseason points -SB
    69 vikings-24. 50 / postseason points. lost SB
    2002 bucs- 26, 24, 23 /. 37 postseason points -SB
    2000 ravens- 36, 23. / 4 shutouts. 23 postseason points
    76 steelers- 31, 30, /5 shutouts- 28 points in 9 games.

    If i had to rank top 3 of all time:

    1. 1976 steelers. 5 shutouts, 28 points in 9 games, injured plagued wouldve won SB.
    2. 2000 Ravens. 4 shutouts and 23 postseason points with SB
    3. 85 bears defense. 2 shutouts 10 points allowed in SB postseason
     
  25. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    we are like a better 2015 broncos defense with a worse offense than them
     

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