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The Last of Us (HBO)

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Ray D, Sep 26, 2022.

  1. forgotten1

    forgotten1 Well-Known Member

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    some people get paid to do just that

    DUH

    hover round cowboy

    :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2025
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 1
  2. forgotten1

    forgotten1 Well-Known Member

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    both
     
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  3. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan Obscured by clouds

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    At least we now know why Elli was so PO'd at Joel. Glad they're doing flashbacks.
     
  4. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    I haven't seen the episode yet. But I'm 98% positive I know all of the scenes already (previews looked like they came straight from the game).

    In the first episode, my wife was getting mad at Ellie and how she was talking to Joel. She asked me "What's her problem? She's such a jerk!" I told her to be patient. All will be revealed later this season (knowing the game also did flashbacks).

    I'm just curious what story point they're going to end this season on. Based on one of the preview scenes (Jessie and Ellie running through the theater), I worry they're going to end at THAT point. (It's THE pivot point in the game) It feels a little too soon to get there. Way too soon. There's a lot that has to happen first. And ending seasons on cliff hangers isn't anything new. But that would be one hell of a cliff hanger to hand people who haven't played the game and then make them wait almost 2 years??? Even worse if the story then becomes... well, not Ellie centric for a while when the show comes back. Game players know the deal. Non-players might become alienated or even quit the show out of frustration. (But the story after the pivot point is the best part. Hang in there).
     
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  5. MojaveDesertPghFan

    MojaveDesertPghFan Obscured by clouds

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    Being really old school - had no clue (other than discussion herein) that this series was an outgrowth of a video game. Regardless, still pretty well done and Pedro Pascal is great in whatever he plays in. I'm glad I have no idea what to expect and where the show will venture. I'd rather be surprised and lured in so to speak. I don't mind movies/series based on books, previous movies/TV series etc (i.e. Mission Impossible, Fargo, Naked Gun etc) but not a big fan generally of shows/movies based on comic books and video games. I'm sure there are many that I watch and enjoy that I have no idea of their origin. Also, some books should always remain simply as books. Read (devoured) every HP Lovecraft and Ray Bradbury book but somehow they don't seem to translate well on the big or little screen IMHO. That's why jeh and I enjoyed the Flintstones so much because we were really there in the early Bedrock days.
     
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  6. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it just implied in the game? They spent an entire episode focused on their relationship. It was a fantastic episode, but I know it triggered some folks.

    Neil Druckmann has said that the show is about love, especially the consequences of it. Joel's love makes him selfish. Don't get me wrong. I would make the same choice he did at the end of Season 1 to protect my daughter. I wouldn't even have to think twice about it. That doesn't mean Joel made a choice that was morally correct, especially knowing that Ellie would have been fine with dying to save the world.
     
  7. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yeah. They didn't hit you over the head with it. Frank is gone when Joel and Ellie reach Bill. Bill is surly and only willing to help Joel because he owes him. Bill mentions that his "partner" was angry with him because Bill refused to leave his (for lack of an better word) compound and his partner, Frank, left because he wanted to find more people, etc etc.

    Bill has the whole town rigged with traps and mines. So he helps guide Joel and Ellie through the maze to get through it and find parts Joel needs for a car or an actual car (can't remember which). When they get to the outskirts, they go to cut through a house to avoid some infected. In there, they find a body hanging. Bill sees that it's Frank and his demeanor immediately changes from being surly to sadness and grief... until he realizes that he's showing vulnerability. He sucks it up and says something like, "Well he left, so eff him." But you know he's devastated. There's a suicide letter on a table that explains Frank was trying to come back but he got bit so he was ending it before he turned.

    There's various clues throughout Bill's home that indicate Bill is gay and Frank was his PARTNER - in that meaning. Including gay porn magazines (Ellie steals one and the driving scene with her looking at it and Joel getting very uncomfortable until Ellie says she's just messing with him and throws it out - just like the show). But the clues and letter are only there if you look for them. Context would also explain Bill and Frank's relationship, but can be missed if one doesn't connect the dots or isn't paying attention.

    The show made Bill far less surly. His compound way better. Let us see Frank alive. And didn't pull any punches to show their relationship.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2025
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  8. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought, though I've only seen references to it. I thought Frank wrote some very unkind things about Bill in the letter in the game, but I may be remembering that wrong. I didn't play the game, but I found out a lot through YouTube clips about it.
     
  9. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    Oh yeah. Not the romance the show had. :lolol:

    Screenshot_20250521_112410_Reddit.jpg
     
  10. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    There's another video game - with a character also named Bill - that has the character, Bill, as gay, but only if you find the clues and connect some dots. Red Dead Redemption 2. Years later and there's still people surprised when they realize what they missed. The information is there to find in game. But it doesn't factor into the story at all, and knowing it only gives a little depth into some of his interactions with gang members or inside jokes they say when he's not around... and you'll never look at pomade the same again.

    The funny thing is that if you were told one of the gang was gay, he'd be one of your last guesses. The conversation would go like this:

    "Hey, one of the gang members is gay. Guess which one."

    Oh, it's probably Trelawny. He's kinda effete. "No."

    Then it has to be Kieren. He's soft. "No"

    Javier? I didn't think so, but I can see it. "No"

    Lenny? "No"

    Uncle?? "No"

    Hosea? "No"

    Sean? Maybe he goes both ways? "No."

    Oh! Maybe you meant one of the girls. Susan seems the type. "No"

    Sadie? "no"

    Mary Beth??? "Nope"

    It seems a little harsh to make the most evil character in the gang gay, but Micah? "Uh uh"

    Well I know it can't be Arthur or John Marston. Charles??? "Nope"

    DUTCH?!?!?!?! "No. It's Bill"

    WTF?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2025
  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Pedro wasn't that great in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. LoL. Anyone seen him in that???
     
  12. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    I've seen clips but I don't really remember him in that. I didn't really notice him until he played Oberyn Martell.
     
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  13. Thor

    Thor Mod Team

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    Did a little binging and put a wrap on season two last weekend.

    Non-Twitter length thoughts behind the spoiler tag. I never got a chance to play the games (regrettably), so my reaction is almost exclusively tied to what happens in the show (thanks to the internet I've unintentionally happened across the occasional detail before I could avert my eyes).


    Whether you played the games or not, S2 drew a tall task from the outset by having to follow up a sterling first season (IMO) two years removed. Adding to that were some events early on that markedly shifted the course of things (and was almost spoiled for me by the internet - I was vaguely aware of what happened in the game, but not the when, why, and how). These will undoubtedly alter the course of the series, but naturally had a significant impact on the season - for good and bad.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    One one hand, you've got the first two episodes. IMO, they represent some of what the show can be when it's at its best. Kaitlyn Dever and her portrayal of Abby is scarily good for me. There's some controversy in her casting amongst the gamers, but for me she nails some the traits that make for the best antagonists: charismatic and intelligent, with an uncompromising rage just under the surface that fuels a determination to punish (with prejudice) anyone that's done them wrong.

    Played right, t's an intimidating presence - here, you realize that the brutality an antagonist like Abby's is capable of transcending the protections commonly afforded to lead characters. That makes her unpredictable by normal conventions, as she establishes quickly that she can take anybody out at any time. The aftermath of her appearance in Ep.2 was a gut-punch that got several emotions in me all riled up, and was very well done for that alone.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    On the other hand, the fallout from Abby exposes one of the show's weakest links: the writing of its younger characters. The narrative focus changes, and while Bella Ramsey does some good work as Ellie, the character just isn't likable as the central focus (I've seen a divide in the gaming community with her casting as well). Joel's absence leaves a huge void that Dina falls well short of covering, which continues to create issues as the two progress along their journey of Revenge Tour: Seattle.

    As it is, Ellie's social awkwardness - warranted considering her past - makes it difficult to sense the chemistry between her and her love interests. The clunky scripting in the interactions between her and Dina only makes it worse and gives things a synthetic feel. It gets bad enough at times that it disrupts the suspension of disbelief in the events going on around them - when you're calling BS on realism because of how clean Dina and Ellie's hair appears after climbing through a grungy subway tunnel in a show about zombies, something's gone wrong.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Much of this season seemed like a prelude of things to come - unfortunately, not much of that came by the time it drew to a close. It felt like we should've gotten more backgrounding on the WLF and Seraphite factions, or on things like the self-reproach that flashed when Ellie realized her own barbarity in her dealings with Nora, Owen, and Mel (the latter of whom left an especially haunting reminder of the horrors being inflicted by the brutality currently infecting the inhabitants of this world as well).

    These are the powerful themes the show has been fantastic at presenting, but seemed to divert from for stretches here. With a world that can draw you in as easily as this one can (I still have unresolved feelings over Ep.2) limiting this season by slashing its length, and yielding too much of the time that remained to a dynamic they've been the least effective at handling, left that unresolved feeling that too much had been left on the table. Not good for a world we likely won't be seeing again for another two years.

    S1: 4.5/5
    S2: 2.5/5

    Tweaked slightly after a couple of days. Interested to hear what those like @Ray D@Ray D thought, who have happened to play through the games.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2025 at 7:21 PM

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