Tell me why you think Myles Garrett is better than TJ Watt

Glad you asked! Truly!



Now, before I give you my answer as to why so many National Media Pundits have Garrett over Watt, I echo the same sentiment as many; T.J. Watt has shown to be better than Myles Garrett. That said, allow me to offer an objective take as to why this debate still rages on. This is going to be somewhat of a long rebuttal, so I hope you enjoy!!




The reason why so many people have Garrett rated over Watt or choose Garrett over Watt has less to do with Performance and a lot more to do with the classic case of "Complete Package" along with being a supernatural athlete. Mind you, this is more than just the classic case of athletic gifts but how well and most of all, how often said talent uses such gifts. Myles Garrett has met expectations thus far in that regard alone.


Whomever among EDGE Players is as much of a true Super Freak along with being a "Complete Package" as Myles Garrett is ?!?..... they are not a laughable second. It is not just is supernatural athleticism that stands out either for that alone is in a class by himself. While he does draw the ire of many Steelers fans, the fact remains is that Myles Garrett really is all the Cleveland Browns have as their pass rush until proven otherwise.




As you have point led out in their stats, T.J. Watt certainly has an edge no doubt. However, T.J. Watt also has a future HOF Defensive Tackle in Cameron Heyward, an rock solid Defensive Lineman in Larry Ogunjobi, a superior running mate in Alex Highsmith and even more support from the likes of Keeanu Benton (presumably). Now again, T.J. Watt isn't picking the players so it is not fair to him to have this argued against him (more on this later).



Compare that to Garrett, who in all reality, accounts for nearly 50% of the Browns sack totals dating back to 2018 (2019 was a wash for... reasons). Let me repeat that; Myles Garrett has been keeping pace with T.J. Watt in terms of sacks despite having inferior assistance.... That is just absurd! For that matter, this very important piece of info could be why this debate still rages on though in fairness to T.J., he isn't the one picking the players; same goes for Myles. Who you have is who you have... but, just like Colin Cowherd ignoring the Offensive Lineman upgrades, this is either deliberately ignored or simply forgotten in translation. Be this all as it may, the fact is that Myles Garrett has single handedly been the focal point and the nucleus of the Browns Pass Rush.... without much if any support despite Clevelands best efforts.



Heading into 2023, ZaDarius Smith and Dalvin Tomlinson will be big additions and are quite possibly the best support Myles has ever had since being in Cleveland. Time will tell if he can capitalize in addition to the aforementioned additions of both Smith and Tomlinson being positive contributions. Should both Dalvin and ZaDarius help just enough?!.... Myles is in for a 20 Sack; book it.



Overall though, this debate between Myles Garrett vs T.J. Watt comes down to more than just teo players but what both players are and provide as a whole. In short?! As I have stated long ago, T.J. Watt is the better Defensive Player. Myles is just simply a literal monster primarily built for the sole purpose to rush the QB. Him being considered the universal Number One Overall Pick dating back to even his Senior Days in High School was no accident by any means.



He has lived up to his Number One overall status. The problem though lies with Cleveland insufficient capability to field adequate pieces around him to fully unleash his generational talents.


... Just my two cents.

 

Just to clarify

Are you two talking about the same “Madden”

 

Garret gets quintuple teamed lol





End thread

 

maddening

 

Watt plays OLB/Edge position in the Steelers scheme. Garrett is a DE in the Browns scheme. These are different positions.

TJ has more opportunities to make plays in other areas of the game playing OLB.

LT and RT are not paid the same. This suggests that they are not essentially the same position talent wise. LT and RT are not always interchangeable positions.


Watt played in 87 games and 4703 snaps.
Garrett played in 84 games and 4515 snaps.

You won't get any argument from me that Watt is the more versatile player. That being said, they play different positions, in different schemes, and are utilized differently.

Both are great players.

 

You make a valid point and I thought about that when I put this post together. But then I thought about the fact that they are both high pedigree players, so regardless of what their line mates are doing they are still always going to be the focus. So essentially they both are getting double teamed nearly every play and in some cases triple teamed. The fact Watt has Hayward and the others as running mates doesn’t really change that. Don’t forget by the way Highsmith wasn’t lighting it up at first. Ogunjobi by the way played multiple seasons with Garrett. So these guys are who they are. They are going to demand the attention. The ones who really benefit from their talent is their running mates. So in the case of both Cam and Watt getting double teamed the ones who benefit are Ogunjobi and Highsmith.

As much of a best Garrett is he disappears a lot as well. We have had success blocking him one on one with Dan Moore. The other thing is Garrett does not have the responsibility of having to drop into coverage and he has help in setting the edge with OLB help. Watt does not have those benefits of simply pinning his ears back every play. But I do see your point. Players with High Pedigree who live up to that pedigree are going to be put on a pedestal.

 

I’m not buying what your selling.

1. Rushing from the blind side is more advantageous to create a strip sack.
2. Alot of pundits today are saying that the RT position is becoming just as important as the LT position as a result of a lot of market edge players playing left edge now.
3. With TJ dropping back into coverage he actually has less QB Rush chances than Garrett does.
4. Garrett has outside contain help with the OLB with him being an DE. Watt has no outside help unless you consider the Slot CB or Outside CB as help.

When it comes to to just rushing the QB though the portions are essentially the same.

 

We sorted that out. No. He is talking about the video game. I was talking about the local media moron.

 

Fair point on both being high pedigree. Also yes, it is true that Garrett had Larry O before Watt ever did in addition to Highsmith not being up to par in terms of assistance (more on this later).


However, I do disagree on the premise that having good support does not increase the chances of said High Pedigree Players obtaining elite production on a game to game basis. Yes, having that dude at EDGE changes a Defenses Dynamic tremendously. That all said, remember that Football is the Ultimate Team Sport for a reason; even someone as great as Von Miller couldn't do it alone for the 2015 Broncos hammers that point home.


Let us start with Larry Ogunjobi first and foremost. Larry Ogunjobi was initially a Cleveland Brown before he would eventually be a Steeler and his longest tenure with the Browns does indicate he has had the benefit of working with Myles Garrett. In 2021 though, Larry saw career highs in Sacks and Quarterback Hits... but not with Cleveland; Cincinnati being the beneficiary of the big season. A major component as to why this major increase in production came to be is that Interior Defensive Lineman usually need a minimum of three occurred seasons before the game itself becomes more transparent for them. Having Garrett did accelerate this but not to the capabilities that many of us saw in Cincinnati. For his Steelers Career thus far, 1.5 Sacks is not a lot to take in but not having T.J. Watt also does not aide this either; much less having Cameron Heyward being severely limited (more on him later). This all said, for an opponent to ignore Larry considerably is what begets performances like that in Carolina, Tampa Bay, Las Vegas and both final rematch games against Baltimore and Cleveland. Yes, Larry O is not a Superstar but he is one that Offenses cannot ignore entirely. He is still a rock solid starter and can make plays if given the chance to do so.



Moving onto Alex Highsmith, EDGE Development usually takes place by their Sophomore Season but it varies between players. By many accounts, Highsmith did take the next step forward and while he did not post double digit sacks, bear in mind that such feats are not nearly as common as the Media would have one believe. For that matter, posting double digit sacks on a yearly basis is revered for only the best of the best. Hell, posting double digit sacks in one season is nothing short of incredible. Highsmith, as you said, was not lighting it up at first but his third season proved otherwise. Pittsburgh still ended up losing games sadly but much of that was not due to Highsmith who emerged as a Top 10 EDGE in the 2023 Season; a season in which T.J. Watt played fewer than 10 games total. To say that Highsmith will simply stay at the same level as he once was simply isn't true for his third season proved otherwise. Much like Larry O, having T.J. Watt helps greatly but that alone is only a part of the equation. NFL Teams now have to account for Highsmith as well for he showed in 2023 he is capable of wrecking house if left unchecked. He will not do so at the rate of Watt but he does possess the capability to do so; hence Tomlins recent comments calling him an "Elite Robin".


Finally, for Cameron Heyward, I strongly disagree that having Heyward does not change much of anything for Watt. While Heyward does benefit from T.J... T.J. also benefits from Heyward as the protection schemes against Watt cannot stay the same every play. The reason being is that a Hall of Fame Defensive Tackle must be accounted for at all times; top tier EDGE or not. While no one on this board will place Cameron Heyward in the same tier as Aaron Donald, Heyward has shown repeatedly throughout his career to be a game wrecker.. through and through. Double teaming Heyward is a must for failing to do so will lead to disaster more times than not. In fact, removing T.J. Watt from the equation made opposing NFL Offenses' lives a lot more easier as teams double teamed Heyward; greatly diminishing Pittsburgh's capabilities to both stop the run and rush the passer. Highsmith and Larry both benefited from Watt more than Heyward but Heywards impact cannot be faulted and doubly so from Larry's case. The more attention is drawn to Cameron, the more chances Larry O will have; Alex the same. Having both Heyward and T.J. Watt on the field beget the Steelers having the NFL Record for leading the League in Sacks in five consecutive seasons; a feat that may never be repeated again.



With all of this said, what is the one common denominator in all of these examples?! Personnel matchups; creating as many favorable ones as much as possible. Such matchups are the current paradigm of the modern NFL and are the foundation for success. The more favorable matchups a team possess versus their opponent, the higher their percentage is of winning. A great example of this is the 2021 Los Angeles Rams. Much like the Steelers, the Rams fielded two HOF Level talents on the Front Seven. As previously discussed, dealing with one is tough enough.. but two?! That drives opposing Offensive Coordinators nuts as that is the classic example of picking your poison. Also, much like the Steelers, Leonard Floyd and Greg Gaines, while not household names themselves, added to the headache for opposing Offensive Coordinators were left in a no win situation; either double Von or double Aaron and hope that protection can hold out long enough to net a positive net gain for the Offense. Matthew Stafford and Cooper Kupp do deserve the headlines for their season but without the likes of Donald and Miller, it is fair to say that Los Angeles does not get to the Super Bowl and much less defeats a Tom Brady led Buccaneers team.



To conclude, for Myles Garrett, teams still cannot stop him... but they have been able to limit him far more than T.J. Watt for Myles Garrett simply lacks other players comparable to him to aide in his quest to destroy opposing Offensive Game Plans. For that matter, take a look at what Cleveland has been attempting to do since Myles Garrett became a Cleveland Brown; give him as many one on one opportunities as possible to wreak havoc. It isn't a surprise so many media pundits have praised Cleveland for signing ZaDarius Smith, Darvin Tomlinson and Ogbonnia Okoronkwo; a trio that has more promise than any other flurry of signings the Browns have had since acquiring Garrett. It is still fair to question whether this will be enough but it is fair to state that this is Garrett's best support group since arriving in the League.




However, that still pales in comparison to T.J.s... and it is not getting any closer for Cleveland. Keeanu Benton is going to shock a lot of people more than the Steelers are letting on and having the likes of Armon Watts, Montravius Adams and DeMarvin Leal (assuming he stays as a IDL) trumps Clevelands Front Seven by a considerable margin. Much like Garrett, T.J. is the Engine of the Defense... but that does not mean that proverbial engine cannot add more "upgrades" to increase its performance.




To conclude, having favorable personnel matchups is not just important in the NFL. It is an absolute necessity for success. Even the elite of the elite need some form of assistance for the NFL is the ultimate team sport. If they don't, they will never reach their potential; T.J. Watt included, doubly so and no less.



Try not to sell T.J.s buddies short. T.J. is still a monster of monsters but those goons make his hellraising a lot easier.

 

The LTs are paid better. LTs are usually the better pass protecters. This means that Garrett usually faces stiffer competition week in and week out.

Watts played in more games and logged more snaps. Watt has a few sacks more.

Watt has no help? There is a ILB behind Watt and SS on Watts side depending on the defensive alignment.

They play in different positions, in different schemes, and are required to different jobs. This makes the comparison difficult.

Could Garrett play OLB for the Steelers? Probably. He's an athletic freak.

 

For me, when a player is universally regarded as a wire to wire number one overall pick... I severely doubt that the type of scheme would be a problem. For a comparison, Chase Young, though not on the same caliber of athleticism as Garrett, has shown he can play in a two point stance. Another player is Joey Bosa; a 6'6 EDGE who has the body of a 3-4 5 Tech but showcased his ability to operate in a two point stance.


Myles Garrett already has that experience having played in multiple fronts during his days at Texas A&M. While Jim Schwartz will not have Garrett standing up, the Wide 9 stance that Garrett will be using is not too far removed from being in a two point stance minus body placement. Garrett's physical gifts make some of the limitations from hand in dirt vs two point negligible anyhow.

 

I'm still waiting for Myles to win that DPOY award.

TJ has won it, and should of won it x2 really

But Myles gets a lot of glory because he's a #1 overall pick in the NFL draft, and he's awesome he's good, so people will all be like see we told you so about this guy.

TJ was taken at the end of the 1st round so many teams passed on him when they shouldn't have.

I would like to see Myles INT a ball off Joe Burrow at point blank range twice in the same season like TJ Watt did to him.

I still don't think Burrow knows how TJ did that to him TWICE....

 

He still doesn't!!



Tried explaining that on Colin's Podcast... but couldn't!

 

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Watt had more help with the pass rush. Garrett accounted for half his teams sacks so defenses were better able to key in on blocking him. Meanwhile TJ always had other very good to almost elite teammates to draw away at least some attention from blockers.

Although the above argument is true, consider how the pass rush fared without TJ.

Bud Dupree was a bust his 1st 3 seasons. That 3rd year was Watt's rookie year, when TJ was still a mere human on the field. Once Watt became the the force he is Dupree suddenly looked worth the first round pick he was. After 2 very good seasons with Watt, Bud left in free agency, and reverted back to what he was before Watt came.

Highsmith had 14.5 sacks last year, but only 4 of those came when Watt wasn't on the field. It was only when Watt was playing that Highsmith played like a pro bowler.

It seems to me that Watt is able to elevate his teammate's play, while Garrett doesn't have that ability. I believe this fact alone proves TJ to be the better player.

 

Because you state what you do about LT’s does not mean it to be true in todays NFL Game. Yes was had a few more snaps and played all of last year with an injury when he did play.
ILB and SS do not typically line up outside of Watt close to the line scrimmage at least not consistently.
They do play different positions and Garrett pins his ears back on every play thus more chances.
Again I am not buying what your selling.

 

You make some valid points. However Watt really has benefited from Highsmiths elite status of last year because Watt missed a bunch of games and when he did come back he was obviously still recovering from his injury.

Regarding Heyward I am definitely not selling him short. But the Offense can double team Heyward and Watt at the same time thus leaving single blocks on Ogunjobi and Highsmith which you saw a lot of last year. Highsmith’s production in fact dipped when Watt was out because he was in fact seeing some double teams. Don’t forget Ogunjob was injured most of last year as well.

I am not denying that Garrett is a talent but it gets very annoying that people make excuses for him when he does lack production. A guy getting double teamed is just that. He is getting double teamed. It doesn’t matter what his line mates are doing. I guess your suggestion that Watt has better line mates would be beneficial for your argument if Watt in fact didn’t get double teamed on nearly every play and you were using that logic to suggest Watts line mates draw double teams which leaves Watt in a favorable position of a one v one match up. I don’t see it very often. Last year with Watt I saw it more than ever but that was because he was obviously not the same player after coming back from injury. You also can’t dispute the fact that Watt literally drops into coverage at times and Garrett does not. So in theory Garrett is doing less with more chances.

Finally in watching games against Cleveland I have seen Dan Morre have success against Garrett one v one. So Garrett doesn’t pass the eye test for me when I compare him to Watt.

 

Thank you this is what I have been trying to say. Garrett had Jadeveon Clowney who should have progressed like Dupree right? Watt has great running mates but the offense still find a way to double team and chip Watt with a TE or RB on nearly every play. Watt gets held an incredible amount as well. The other players definitely benefit a lot more from Watt than Watt does the other players. It is just like Brady without good receivers. He still performed at a high level and found a way to make everyone around him better.

Lets see what are the excuses for Garrett:
1. He gets double and triple teamed. (If that is so then why aren’t his line mates having more success?)
2. Watt doesn’t get double and triple teamed more. (If that is so then why are Watts teammates have significantly more success with Watt on the field?)
3. They play different positions. Ok and Watt being an OLB essentially has not outside contain yet he has more tackles and more tackles for loss over his career. Watt also is required to drop into coverage, Garrett is not, leaving Garrett with more rush chances at the QB but yet he has less sacks and less qb hurries.

I’m sure there is more but these are the main ones.

This year will be the tell tale of who is actually better. Garrett has a proven Edge across from him and Watt has an improved Highsmith across from him. Cleveland improved their interior DL and the Steelers have a healthy Larry Ogunjobi along with Cam. Should be no more excuses for Garrett. Like i said I don’t even consider Garrett the second best Edge. I see it as Watt then Nick Bosa.

The other thing that is hard to measure here is when they make splash plays. Do they do it during a time in the game where a sack or turnover is really needed or in a big game. Watt has had some pretty significant momentum changing plays. Or do they get clean up sacks or sacks when their team is way ahead and the defense is pinning its ears back. I can’t answer that about Garrett.

 

The LT theme remains true in today's NFL game. LT's are generally drafted higher because they protect the QB's blind side. They are paid more because they protect the QB's blind side.

You call 188 snaps a few more? Watt 87 games vs Garrett 84 games.

Let's go with the theme that more important and better positions get paid better.

2021 LT (top 2) average pay 7.3 mill. 2021 RT (top 2) 4.3 mill.

You can compare the differences in pay. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/tackle/

Garrett generally faced the higher paid and stiffer one on one competition week in and week out.

This is what I am selling. Both players play different positions in different schemes. Both are great at what they are required of doing for their teams. Watt is the more versatile player. Watt isn't as athletically gifted as Garrett. The comparison is unfair.

A more fair comparison would be to Porter, Harrison, LT.

Is Watt a better OLB than LT?

 

The first bolded is my point exactly; two or more HOF Talents on the Front Seven make many, if not every, Front Seven player much easier for every Offensive Line Protection Scheme cannot be static. While injuries do play a factor in performance (any player regardless of skill level playing injured mitigates their effectiveness), that player still commands respect as opposing Offensive Coordinators are not going to take any chances to let him free. This goes back to personnel matchups and how best to exploit them. The most simple way of these is simply to acquire as much talent as possible along with your big gun so that Opposing Offenses cannot solely focus on him and him alone. Double teams, even triple teams, will still happen of course due to the aforementioned level of respect players like T.J. command. However, adding more players who have similar capabilities like T.J. Watt (Cameron Heyward) along with a very good running mate (Alex Highsmith) means that someone, at point, is getting one less blocker two them. Again, this point coincides with what I had stated earlier in this post; two HOF Talents are better than one. What is the Offensive Line to do with not just multiple HOF Players but rock solid Front Seven players as well?! This is a major reason as to why Pittsburgh set the record until it ended in 2022; Offensive Coordinators literally had no answers for Pittsburghs Defensive Scheme for there were simply too many weapons along the Front Seven to combat. Once that major advantage was taken away... that record sadly came to an end. As I stated previously....




... Pick your poison if you would.....


Now yes, Garrett did have Jadeveon Clowney and that was a quality pickup at the time. However, much like Garrett (more on this tibit in a moment) Cloweny has never and likely will never flash in the same vein that T.J. Watt does. Hell, while their draft slots are different, Alex Highsmith is Jadeveon Clowney's superior in every way at this point in time. Beyond Clowney though since 2021, who else has Garrett had to force opposing Offensive Coordinators to slide protection to different players to create confusion and panic?! It is a fair question to ask. Like T.J., Myles isn't picking the players to rush the passer alongside him (that befalls on Andrew Berry and Jimmy Haslam) but I will touch on more of this later in this post.



To your second point, Dan Moore is winning yes... but this may have more to do with the Offensive Playcalling than not. Reminder that Garrett, like Watt, can and has been chipped every now and then before initiaing contact with Moore. While Moore has not given up many sacks, I suspect he has given up many pressures for as well saw during his 2022 Campaign, his anchor and ability to absorb Bull Rushes was still a major detriment to his game overall; hand placement being another can of worms all together. Hell, Big Ben got the ball out far faster than either Pickett (thus far) and Mitch could dream of in 2021. Note that previous statement; since 2021 (Dan Moores Rookie Season) Myles Garrett has 2 occurred sacks during that time; not a high number. Again, this is from 2021 to 2022 and me and you can both agree on aspects of both.


1.) For 2021, getting the ball out quickly was of the top priority for Pittsburgh as Big Ben sadly was on his final legs. Due to the fact, minimizing his chances of being sacked resulted in Pittsburgh opting to fewer explosive plays overall... though a lack of a Deep Threat Option (or rather Chase Claypool's regression) saw to that.


2 ) This season was a year of transition. First Mitch Trubisky and then Kenny Pickett, Pittsburgh opted for a more mobile approach. While a number of factors doomed Pittsburgh against Cleveland in their first matchup, the second matchup proved to be of a different tune. Earlier in the season, it is now safe to say Pittsburghs Offense lacked an identity. The second time against Cleveland?! Smash mouth football.



Now, allow me to state this and, this is where the likes of you, me and everyone else on the board agrees. Regardless of what Offensive Philosphy a team is using, top tier EDGE players must wreak havoc using multiple ways to cause disruption and sew confusion for their Defense to win consistently on downs; doubly so in critical situations. This is where T.J. Watt excels at compared to Myles.... and always has since 2018. No matter the Offense, T.J. Watt has shown everyone that he will either find a way to make the big play or will create his own path to success for his team to win. There is no disputing that and it is both safe to say as well as fair to stare that Garrett simply has not been able to rise to the occasion in the same vein that T.J. Watt has. For that matter, it is of a simple deduction; T.J. Watt is the more clutch defender and therefore, makes him the better player. Media pundits can spin whatever form of athletic limitations T.J. Watt has (a crock of $#!% if you ask me) but his reliability in critical situations to either create more difficulty for the Offense or to tilt a seemingly hopeless situation into a possible victory cannot be faulted. If anything, why the National Media is finally starting to realize this even though T.J. Watt has been doing this since 2019 is beyond me.


Overall, me and you both agree that T.J. Watt is the better player and thus, deserves more attention. Remember I said early in this thread I was going to take a different stance to answer the question you have provided for it seems, to me, that the National Media's obsession with Myles Garrett has more to do with what he has accomplished with little to nothing (the little aspect being Clowney) compared to Watt (Heyward, Highsmith, etc.). To wrap up this very spirited yet respectful (kudos and thanks by the way ) debate we have had, allow me to unveil my own Top 10 EDGE Players currently. They are as follows;



1.) T.J. Watt

2.) Nick Bosa

3.) Myles Garrett

4.) Micah Parsons

5.) Maxx Crosby

6.) Brian Burns

7.) Von Miller

8.) Hasson Reddick

9.) Joey Bosa

10.) Trey Hendrickson


Overall good sir, that will conclude my response for this thread. Hope you understand my differing take and hope you enjoyed! Take it easy, stay safe and hope to have many more healthy debates with you in the future!!



Side Note: Parsons was admittedly more tricky for me to place in my rankings than previously thougb as 2022 was still technically him splitting time at Linebacker and EDGE. 2023 should not only see him surpass Garrett but also possibly Bosa should things go well for him both health wise and personnel wise. Dallas has a favorable schedule with some new pieces themselves. Add these three things up and one can see why Micah is so heavily favored to win NFL DPOY via the bookies.

 

Why are people always trying to compare these two players, they don't even play the same position ?

 

I understand you don't mean to ask me this directly. I just answered the question presented with the best possible information and data available. Mind you, the OPs questions states that the Media compares the two, not so much any of us who are aware of the differences of position.


Now, as to why the Media does this?!


$$$..... and lots of it.