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TE is going to be a key next season

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by francobettis, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    And that is why paying 4-6 mil the next 4 years to a #4-6 weapon just don't make financial sense to me, can't pay everyone and I sure the heck would rather have Bell here than Vance. In a perfect world would love to sign everyone but you can't, I want Vance back but at least half of what he is making. jmo :smiley1:
     
  2. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Lol, ok. Doesnt matter what side of the argument I am on. Giving up a draft pick is dumb for a TE if you arent keeping him past that year. If you were talking a 1 year rental QB that you thought would get you a SB, thats different. Vnce wasnt going to put them over the top. Draft picks are gold for a team that builds primarily through the draft.

    You're very wrong if you think the only options are cutting him or reworking his deal.

    JAD was wrong about something else as usual, YOU are the last word master :lolol:
     
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  3. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    So they have Mac under a big contract(possible cut but doubt it) Jesse(kinda a growing favorite for fans and Ben) They extended Grimble and signed McGee to a futures contract. I’m curious where another TE would fit. Not saying if that special player was there in the draft and there wasn’t another need player available I wouldn’t draft them but its kinda crowded already.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    LMAO.......:thumbs_up:, it is really what I love about this place so many different ideas and for the most part a spirited debate :smiley1:

    As for the whole draft pick thing we swapped and that is well worth the one year rental. We added to an already strong offense, look I wasn't the only one to feel this way from behinf the steel curtain:

    If this season plays out as expected for both teams, the pick the Steelers lost could end up being as little as five positions behind the pick they acquired.

    If Pittsburgh wins the Super Bowl and San Francisco finishes with the worst record in the NFL — they finished 2016 at 31st overall with only two victories, one more than the Cleveland Browns — Pittsburgh would end up with the 139th overall draft pick in the fifth round, while the 49ers would pick in the fourth round at 134. Realistically, that gap is likely to be a bit larger, but it’s still a worthwhile trade, even if Vance only manages to push the highly inconsistent Xavier Grimble off of the roster.


    Also some more info I came across while I was looking things up which I found interesting:

    As part of McDonald’s contract that he signed, he’s scheduled to have base salaries of $2.1 million, $3.7 million, $4.2 million, $5.5 million and $5.5 million from 2017 to 2021. His base salary of $2.1 million for 2017 is fully guaranteed for skill and cap. If McDonald remains on the Steelers’ 90-man roster come April 1, 2018, all $3.7 million of his 2018 salary becomes fully guaranteed at that point. If he’s on the Steelers roster come April 1, 2019, $3.2 million of his $4.2 base salary that year then becomes fully guaranteed. As for his $5.5 million base salaries in 2020 and 2021, those are option years.

    As part of his deal, McDonald is scheduled to earn $150,000 in annual workout bonuses for participating in 90 percent or more of the team’s offseason program. The 49ers have already handled that bonus in 2017, however. Additionally, McDonald can earn up to $750,000 in per-game roster bonuses in each year of his deal. Being as McDonald only dressed for 11 regular season games in 2016 for the 49ers, the Steelers need only to account for $515,625 to go his cap charge in 2017 as that is considered likely to be earned money. The Steelers will be credited or debited the difference of that roster bonus amount in 2018 should McDonald dress for less or more than 11 games during the 2017 regular season.

    As far as incentives go, McDonald can earn $75,000 a season if he catches 55 or more passes and another $75,000 should hit 700 yards receiving in a single season. Being as he has never hit those statistical marks, that money goes down on the ledger as not likely to be earned. In short, there’s no reason to worry about that part of his contract until he hits those statistical levels and it will be great cap money spent should he ultimately do so.


    In summation, McDonald is currently scheduled to count $2,615,625 against the Steelers salary cap in 2017. If he flounders this upcoming season, the Steelers can easily cut him by April 1, 2018 without incurring any dead money and the same goes in 2019 if he plays the next two seasons in Pittsburgh. As for the final two years of his deal, there are no dates or guarantees tied to his salaries and thus he can be cut at any time without any issue starting in 2020.
     
  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It's not about the draft pick. It's about the production. When he was healthy late in the season, McDonald showed he can be an impact weapon, especially in the games against the Ravens and Jaguars. He brings more as a receiver than anything else they have right now and he is an excellent blocker James is average or a little below at both.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    And the money vs the production.......14 recp 188yds 1 td not worth 4 mil when we have AB, MB, Juju and maybe Bell. Especially when we have cap issues......jmo
     
  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    None of those guys plays tight end. Having a guy who can be a weapon as a receiver, but also provide the run blocking necessary at tight end is something the Steelers have missed since Miller retired. McDonald gives that to them.

    Your use of those statistics is misleading for a couple of reasons. He only played in 10 games and wasn't really involved in the offense as a receiver until the second half of the season. More importantly, they leave out his performance in the playoff game. McDonald caught 10 passes for 112 yards against the Jaguars.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  8. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Not to mention a high quality safety.


    Whichever comes first in the draft makes no difference to me. Just nab "the guy" so that our defense can take the next step.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Nope not misleading part of my point he missed 6 games which is part of his problem Injuries. Take the Pat's game had a very nice first half and then missed the rest of the game. Yeah he had a great playoff game but again show me he can do it consistently. Bottom like he is not Bell he is not the focal point of the offense he is anywhere from our 4-6th weapon so throwing 4-6 mil a year at him just don't make financial sense. jmo
     
  10. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    The point stands. Leaving out the playoff game is misleading. So is posting the totals without mentioning that they came in 10 games.

    Contracts are about timing as much as talent. Also, please stop with the 4-6th weapon. There are not five guys who will play a larger role in the offense. And if he's healthy, he will be be on the field more than Bryant, too. The point is having a threat like that who can give them the blocking they have been lacking at tight end. Also, part of what makes that offense so dangerous is the number of weapons. It makes them damn hard to defend.
     
  11. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Ok so what he played in 11 out of 18 games for 24 rec for 300 yds and 1 touch down, does that make you feel better, is that worth 4 mil? The fact remains that he still missed time, he misses time every year. I am not against Vance I think he is a good weapon I just don't think he is worth 4-6 mil a year for the next 4 years on a team where yes he is the 4th - 6th weapon. He is not ahead of AB, Bell and Juju and I put him even with MB that is why I say 4th. When a team faces the Steelers do you think the first name out of the DC's mouth is Vance? No I think Bell and AB are the main focus and that is where Juju and Vance get to take advantage.

    Now if you go back and read my post I posted how SF was trying to trade him and nobody wanted him. Why was that was it talent, was it contract, was it health was it the inconsistent hands? IDK he did get off to a slow start here as a matter of fact there was a hate thread on him, go back and read it I am pretty sure I was sticking up for him. This comes down to $$$$$ rip up that deal and come back at half the price and I am all in........
     
  12. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Mcdonald is not a reliable receiver. Hopefully he gets on and stays on the the jugs gun.And has been unrealible his whole NFL career.
     
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  13. Clive From PIT

    Clive From PIT Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying you're misleading, but...you're talking about him like he's a receiver. He's not--he's a tight end, a position that plays a large role in our offense that doesn't show up in the statistics.
     
  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    And I get that and understand that but let me ask you how was his blocking in the 7 games he missed? This isn't just on one thing I am basing it on many, honestly do you feel he is worth 4 mil now 5 next year and 6 the 2 after.....I don't. I like Vance and think the handful of spots we gave up in the draft was well worth it however he is not a 4 mil a year guy, not when we have such a cap issue. jmo
     
  15. Clive From PIT

    Clive From PIT Well-Known Member

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    Injuries are part of the game. Other than his trip to IR four seasons ago, McDonald has averaged 12-13 games per year. For a position that catches a lot of balls over the middle and blocks a lot (getting rolled up on is always a risk), I'm OK with that level of durability.
     
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  16. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Vance is the man he’s the next tony Gonzalez imo
     
  17. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Well that is your opinion but I will not want to pay this guy that much money to miss 3-4 games a year. Go look at the top TE's Gronk, Kelce, Ertz, Walker, Engram, Doyle, Cook, Davis, Brate & Henry are the top 10 yards and Ebron and Witten just outside the top ten all played at least 14 games. ^ of which played in all 16, Vance can't help us if he isn't out there. The top TE(Graham) has an avg per year of 10 mil, the next 3 have an avg of 9 Gronk and Kelce are 2 of them which they earn by being the pest receiver on their team. Vance is at 6.5 just out side the top 10(12th) and not even a top 3 receiver on his team.

    There was a reason the 49ers couldn't trade him during the draft. Vance has a ton of potential but comes with a big salary that we can't afford to carry. At some point we have to decide where the money stops and with Bell needing to be signed and ILB & S being top priority Vance will have to rip that contract up and start over. And before anyone says well we don't have to sign Bell yes we do and there is another thread that we are all arguing over so let's not bring that to this thread :smiley1: jmo
     

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