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talent on defense or lack there of...

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Da Stellars, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Our last truly great player we drafted on defense was Troy Polamalu.

    That was only due to the Steelers willing to make a deal and move up in the draft.

    The FO needs to be willing to make that type of move again. We desperately needed an ILB that fits our defense. Kyle Vander Esch or Roquan Smith was exactly what this team needed.


    In the Big Ben era we aren't going to finish worse than 8-8. Either trade up and get the guy we need or be willing to spend the cash to get players to help you win, NOW, before Ben hangs up his cleats!
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. sjromano

    sjromano Well-Known Member

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    I think TJ would disagree with you.

    But I agree on the moving up in the draft part.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    I think shazier was trending towards great. But other than him all picks have been average or bust. Watt is good and will make some pro bowls but he's not a cornerstone you build around on defense. He's a very good piece to have on an already made defense.
     
  4. sjromano

    sjromano Well-Known Member

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    Didn't mean to leave Shaz out, was just thinking about players currently fielded.

    I think Watt would shine even more if he had a bookend on the other side to take off the double-teams. No one doubles Dupree.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    On defense ... we have ....
    Heyward, Tuitt, Hargrave?, TJ, Hilton, and Haden.
    Now, the other 5 spots need to be filled with studs and immediately.
    Then go get rod Woodson and K. Greene to teach these guys how to play those positions.
    Bring back "the wiz" as OC
     
  6. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Hardini68

    Hardini68 Well-Known Member

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  8. Hardini68

    Hardini68 Well-Known Member

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    I agree but we are strapped for cash almost not a lot of cap space because of all the crappy deals we made.
     
  9. bleednblackngold

    bleednblackngold Well-Known Member

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    You mean the guy who shows up for every 3rd game? How many games this year does he have a grand total of 1 tackle? The answer is 3. Yesterday he had 2, plus a pass defensed. His last sack was 3 games ago.

    Not picking on you, but I think a lot of people on here have rose colored glasses on when it comes to watching this guy play.

    I know this won't be popular here, but so be it.

    Watt is an above average OLB. That is all he is. He is not, and does not have the talent to become, great.
     
    • Hilarious Hilarious x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Some talent and a couple holes but the scheme is destroying any chance of being a decent unit. Show of hands....who misses the kind of Steeler D that used to be aggressive,feared and played downhill? Now we are tentative,weak and playing on our heels. Butler/Tomlin has made this a D that has to think too much instead of playing ball. You wonder why we get no turnovers? It's the bend but don't break crap. The only time this D gets stops is when the opposition makes a mistake. It's hardly ever something we do.
     
  11. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Keith Butler has been a far greater issue than the talent.


    If there is anything about this team that needs changed, it is most definitely him.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. steel1031

    steel1031 Well-Known Member

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    You know the defense needs work I agree not even gonna argue

    But let's stop with this " we are wasting these years with ben". Ben is as responsible for the position they are in as anyone on the team. He hasn't played at the level he needs to in several games.

    I love Ben. I wouldn't want anyone else but let's look at the facts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Roonatic

    Roonatic Well-Known Member

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    Has to be a better lb than Dupree for $9mil in free agency next year. 3-4 defense needs studs at lb.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Go for Clowney? Unusual I know but he might be worth it.


    He is going to be unbelievably expensive though. Reports state he wants Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald money.
     
  15. Busman

    Busman

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    :D:(:@:confused::ccupofjoe:8-):coolcool::crycry::ACK!::oops::rolleye:o_O:sneak::laughs::bitetongue::thumbs__down::ninja::notworthy::notworthy::unsure::poopy::whistley::lollmao::getsick::sleep:
     
  16. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Hey I love Vince Williams, but you aren’t winning a SB with him as your best starting ILB, you just aren’t. He is athletically deficient. We have a lot of okay, not great on this defense right now.

    What is Butler supposed to do?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    He could start by not using his LBs on TEs and WRs . That's a good place to start
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  18. rutan74

    rutan74 Well-Known Member

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    Part bingo here. Joey Porter has GOT to go. He has done nothing to make the LB's better.

    Now what has bothered me over the years is the lack of getting some of the ex players in to help. I am just flabbergasted that a LB like Jack Ham never got a coaching job. If there ever was a player to pass on technique and brains it was him. Yet he never landed a job anywhere. Maybe he didn't want one, but it pretty amazing. Mike Wagner would have been another I would have tapped along with Mel Blount.

    The fact here is that the Steeler closet is full of ex-talent that they could tap in to and they tap in with Joey Porter? Granted not all great players make good coaches but it still bothers me that we have not tapped in to all these ex players to find out if anyone can help.

    My guess is seeing Blount in some of these reunion picks that he could do a better job right now being an old man than some of these dimwits that are taking up space on the team.

    Munch has been a total blessing. He is simply amazing. Seems like a good teacher and that is what you need for position coaches.

    rutan
     
  19. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    No argument that the scheme is lacking but IMO, the league killed any chance of them ever being a feared unit again. Steelers were the hardest hitting team when the league changed the rules. Hard to strike fear into your opponent when its nearly impossible to deliver a hard hit now. Even if its a clean hit, if its too hard it can draw a flag because it's impossible to tell in real speed so they just throw a flag anyway.

    One good thing, without looking up stats, it does appear that this years team tackles better, seems that way at least.

    But these players are not being put in the best position to succeed and that is on Butler and Tomlin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you are saying but why can't we be one of the most aggressive units even in a league where a lot of it is now against the rules. There are teams still playing good D . The Ravens being one of them. We used to be on par with some of the great Raven defenses.
     
  21. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Ben did his job yesterday. 6 drives: 1 punt, 3 tds, 2 missed FGs.
     
  22. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

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    Things seemed to really started rolling down hill when we simultaneously wasted a #1 on Jarvis and wasted a lot if cap space on the awful Woodley deal.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    The talent is serviceable, at best. Who are the standouts? How many dropped ints?, missed tackles? These things have nothing to do with scheme, it's about making a play when it will change the course of a game. When was the last time that happened this season? Watt blocking the FG in overtime vs. Cleveland to salvage the tie is the only play that comes to (my) mind. That was week 1.

    https://fansided.com/2018/12/11/mike-tomlin-steelers-playoffs-rumors/2/

    Defensive playmaking
    This is a major issue that has been the storyline of the Steelers’ franchise for years. Despite a powerful offense, the defense simply hasn’t had any success in replicating the game-changing plays needed to make a bend-don’t-break approach worth embracing. And yet the Steelers refuse to make worthwhile changes.

    The Steelers have acquired only one player who can be considered at least an average starter in their secondary since drafting William Gay in 2007. That player is Mike Hilton, a unique blitzing slot corner who has become under-utilized in coverage despite being one of the best in the league.

    Their current assembly of Joe Haden, Artie Burns, Sean Davis, Terrell Edmunds, Coty Sensabaugh, and Morgan Burnett inspires no confidence whatsoever.

    They refused to move on from Haden this past off-season despite him carrying a massive $11.9 million cap hit and intercepting only one pass last year. He’s replicated that level of mediocrity this year despite being signed as a difference-maker who could raise the upside of the unit.

    Burns and Davis have been penalty magnets since being drafted largely for their athleticism. Neither was an especially accomplished player in college and were reaches. Most importantly, there’s been no development with them despite their raw physical traits.

    The mis-evaluations on Edmunds and Burnett were especially bad, though. Edmunds was one of the two worst first-round picks this year just based on his college accomplishments, but especially so when comparing where Justin Reid and Jessie Bates were selected. Burnett was always better closer to the line of scrimmage, so adding him to a unit with several similar players was a poor use of resources.

    All of this came to a head the last three weeks.

    Derek Carr had his way hitting his receivers all afternoon long, including a dominant performance by Jared Cook. Even Seth Roberts, a near-retirement Jordy Nelson, and rookie Marcell Ateman couldn’t be slowed. This has been one of the least potent offenses of all, yet the Steelers allowed 24 points and could’ve been more had Carr not fumbled near the red zone.

    They could have easily allocated that money in a wiser fashion. Prince Amukamara signed for the same amount as Haden, and Morris Claiborne was less. They should’ve chased a more rangy safety like Tre Boston, who was signed for less than half of Burnett.

    The Steelers are tied for 28th with only six interceptions, and 25th in total takeaways. That’s not a championship-caliber pedigree, and yet it was born out of their own poor evaluations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  24. Xcursion88

    Xcursion88 Well-Known Member

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    No one has to. He's a tease. Drafted on measurables. He looks the part. No tenacity whatsoever
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Disco1981

    Disco1981 Well-Known Member

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    Hell...The only thing productive we did on D against the pathetic Raiders was when the ball slipped out of Carrs hand...The whole D went into the endzone to take a " group " photo lol...They are horrendous and it's **** like this that pisses fans off...Can't ever get a big stop, or make a game changing play...But you wanna dance around and take snapshots...Because the ball slipped out of the QB's hand...That's what this D has become sadly
     
    • Agree Agree x 2

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