Steelers Top-10 Qb's of All-Time

uhhhh.... JOEY HARRINGTON...DUH!!!!

 

I agree that when the last drive is factored in that Ben had a great game. I obviously don't want to discount that. But it seemed that the Steelers offense stalled in the second half too allowing the Cards to get back in the game and almost win the game. I give kudos to Ben for a great final drive, but they didn't exactly move the ball at will against the Cards in the second half and Ben wnt though a stretch where he wasn't converting third downs.[/quote:30mear2j]
What did he do that wasn't good enough? He had basically a perfect first half. The first drive was derailed by the running game at the 1 yard line (FG), the second was a TD, on the third we were in great shape (22 yard gain on 3rd and 12) until a Kemo holding call took away that 3rd down conversion and put us in the hole, the fourth was the INT that we can't really blame him for.

In the 2nd half, the first drive ended with his QB draw from the 2, which would have worked if Kemo had bothered to continue blocking his man instead of letting him go prematurely. The next two drives were completely murdered by sacks. And if you remember those sacks, you remember that they were not his fault. It was not the "Oops I held onto the ball too long" kind, it was the "WTF my receivers are all only 5 yards downfield and I'm on the ground already" kind. On the next drive he made quite the play, converting 3rd and long from the back of his own end zone (safety). That was a game winner. Then a couple more game winners on the last drive.

I'm sure you could say, "A better QB makes those plays anyway" or "makes it happen anyway" or something very general like that. Maybe he should have broken all those tackles to make more plays. I'm just wondering how reasonable an expectation that is. Even without the final drive, the game he had was extremely good. Like 9 out of 10. I thought he did about as well as a QB could do under the circumstances. I didn't know anyone disagreed until now.[/quote:30mear2j]

Okay, I'll concede that the Super Bowl against the Cards was a great game for Ben. Shucks, the last drive alone solidified that. But will you concede that in the other two Super Bowls Ben played in he hasn't performed like a "great" quarterback? Obviously, the Seahawks game was atrocious for Ben. It was like I got you here, boys, you're on your own in this one. The Packers game was mediocre to below average by Ben's standards. Two bad INTs and a rather pedestrian like performance. He looked more like Mark Malone in that game instead of the great Big Ben we all know he can be. So that's two out of the three Super Bowls he's been a part of that he hasn't performed up to par. I hope Ben has 3 or 4 more Super Bowls to redeem himself in but at this point any publication that has him listed above TB is just plain wrong (IMHO).[/quote:30mear2j]

 

I agree that when the last drive is factored in that Ben had a great game. I obviously don't want to discount that. But it seemed that the Steelers offense stalled in the second half too allowing the Cards to get back in the game and almost win the game. I give kudos to Ben for a great final drive, but they didn't exactly move the ball at will against the Cards in the second half and Ben wnt though a stretch where he wasn't converting third downs.[/quote:171xwio5]
What did he do that wasn't good enough? He had basically a perfect first half. The first drive was derailed by the running game at the 1 yard line (FG), the second was a TD, on the third we were in great shape (22 yard gain on 3rd and 12) until a Kemo holding call took away that 3rd down conversion and put us in the hole, the fourth was the INT that we can't really blame him for.

In the 2nd half, the first drive ended with his QB draw from the 2, which would have worked if Kemo had bothered to continue blocking his man instead of letting him go prematurely. The next two drives were completely murdered by sacks. And if you remember those sacks, you remember that they were not his fault. It was not the "Oops I held onto the ball too long" kind, it was the "WTF my receivers are all only 5 yards downfield and I'm on the ground already" kind. On the next drive he made quite the play, converting 3rd and long from the back of his own end zone (safety). That was a game winner. Then a couple more game winners on the last drive.

I'm sure you could say, "A better QB makes those plays anyway" or "makes it happen anyway" or something very general like that. Maybe he should have broken all those tackles to make more plays. I'm just wondering how reasonable an expectation that is. Even without the final drive, the game he had was extremely good. Like 9 out of 10. I thought he did about as well as a QB could do under the circumstances. I didn't know anyone disagreed until now.[/quote:171xwio5]

Okay, I'll concede that the Super Bowl against the Cards was a great game for Ben. Shucks, the last drive alone solidified that. But will you concede that in the other two Super Bowls Ben played in he hasn't performed like a "great" quarterback? Obviously, the Seahawks game was atrocious for Ben. It was like I got you here, boys, you're on your own in this one. The Packers game was mediocre to below average by Ben's standards. Two bad INTs and a rather pedestrian like performance. He looked more like Mark Malone in that game instead of the great Big Ben we all know he can be. So that's two out of the three Super Bowls he's been a part of that he hasn't performed up to par. I hope Ben has 3 or 4 more Super Bowls to redeem himself in but at this point any publication that has him listed above TB is just plain wrong (IMHO).[/quote:171xwio5]
Ok lets think about this when we think about the Green Bay game. Ben didn't have his all pro center. Now stack TB up against the Purple People Eaters or the Doomsday D but take Mike Webster out of the equation. You see what I mean there? If not for the fact that Mendy fumbled the ball we would have probably won that game. As far as the Seattle game Ben scored a TD and gave the key block that gave Randle-el the time to hit Hines down field on the gadget play. Yeah the "numbers" didn't look good but I'll take numbers on the scoreboard anyday over numbers in the record books. And the thing I love about Ben is so would he. All that being said I still think TB is the better qb.

 

And for the record... Yes I understand that the Purple People Eaters and Doomsday D were better than the Packers D. But when you are playing on the biggest stage in the world and you don't have an All Pro guy that you've relied on all year it does make a difference.

 

Well, I can't reel off the names of loads of Dolphin QBs. I would imagine a lifelong Dolphins fan would be able to, though.

I still maintain the debate over the also-rans is more fun than the who the 'greatest' was. It's an excuse to revisit all those memories that the highlight films tend to forget. Maybe this is because I started watching the Steelers in the 80's and 90's, and it's just nostalgia for my youth, though.

 

I agree that when the last drive is factored in that Ben had a great game. I obviously don't want to discount that. But it seemed that the Steelers offense stalled in the second half too allowing the Cards to get back in the game and almost win the game. I give kudos to Ben for a great final drive, but they didn't exactly move the ball at will against the Cards in the second half and Ben wnt though a stretch where he wasn't converting third downs.[/quote:2imuips0]
What did he do that wasn't good enough? He had basically a perfect first half. The first drive was derailed by the running game at the 1 yard line (FG), the second was a TD, on the third we were in great shape (22 yard gain on 3rd and 12) until a Kemo holding call took away that 3rd down conversion and put us in the hole, the fourth was the INT that we can't really blame him for.

In the 2nd half, the first drive ended with his QB draw from the 2, which would have worked if Kemo had bothered to continue blocking his man instead of letting him go prematurely. The next two drives were completely murdered by sacks. And if you remember those sacks, you remember that they were not his fault. It was not the "Oops I held onto the ball too long" kind, it was the "WTF my receivers are all only 5 yards downfield and I'm on the ground already" kind. On the next drive he made quite the play, converting 3rd and long from the back of his own end zone (safety). That was a game winner. Then a couple more game winners on the last drive.

I'm sure you could say, "A better QB makes those plays anyway" or "makes it happen anyway" or something very general like that. Maybe he should have broken all those tackles to make more plays. I'm just wondering how reasonable an expectation that is. Even without the final drive, the game he had was extremely good. Like 9 out of 10. I thought he did about as well as a QB could do under the circumstances. I didn't know anyone disagreed until now.[/quote:2imuips0]

Okay, I'll concede that the Super Bowl against the Cards was a great game for Ben. Shucks, the last drive alone solidified that. But will you concede that in the other two Super Bowls Ben played in he hasn't performed like a "great" quarterback? Obviously, the Seahawks game was atrocious for Ben. It was like I got you here, boys, you're on your own in this one. The Packers game was mediocre to below average by Ben's standards. Two bad INTs and a rather pedestrian like performance. He looked more like Mark Malone in that game instead of the great Big Ben we all know he can be. So that's two out of the three Super Bowls he's been a part of that he hasn't performed up to par. I hope Ben has 3 or 4 more Super Bowls to redeem himself in but at this point any publication that has him listed above TB is just plain wrong (IMHO).[/quote:2imuips0]
Not only will I concede it, I'll go back in time and do it a few posts up

He made a couple good plays against the Seahawks to help us win, but he made more bad ones that put us in danger of losing. Yes, that was a bad game.

I kind of don't put the pick 6 against Green Bay on him. It would have been a 95 yard TD if his arm hadn't been hit. And he didn't hold onto it too long, he let it go very fast. Kemo just got his ass kicked. But yeah, the 2nd INT was all on Ben, and extremely costly. And when it was time for another final drive I thought he blew it. He didn't throw it to the most open receivers. It was mediocre, and subpar by his standards.

 

Pouncey was missed, but Legursky played one heck of a game in the Super Bowl. He went up against one of the best NTs in the game and held his own. Legursky was not the problem and in fact, he got my vote for Steelers MVP in that game the way he filled in for Pouncey.

 

Agreed. I stopped reading that preceding argument the moment "Ben didn't have his all-pro center" was brought up. Legursky played a beast of a game and, although Pouncey is a stud, he really wasn't missed in XLV.

 

I can't reel off a bunch of former Dolphins qb's either (Jay Fiedler). Especially since Marino basically held the position from the early 80s until the end of the 20th century. My point was that all great teams have probably 2-3 studs at best and then a bunch of "also-rans."

Bradshaw vs Ben, as it's been pointed out, isn't even a debate . . . yet. Ben's body of work is not complete. He WILL shatter all of Bradshaw's team passing records. He'll own the franchise passing yards record by mid-season and the td's mark within a couple years. At that point, it'll come down to Super Bowls. Very few Steelers fans will condede Bradshaw's throne to Ben unless Ben gets at least one more Lombardi.

 

Maybe WE didn't miss him. But ask Ben if HE missed him. I got a feeling if he's being honest he'd say he did.

 

Havent read all the post in here....BUT.....I could sit here for hours and still not come up with a Top 10 of STEELER QBs.....Just havent had 10 good QBs in our history!!!....TB1
BB2
................The rest........

 

Just wanted to point out the different rules that TB had to go against -- WRs could be mugged until the ball was in the air. It was alot harder to pass in those days. TB was one tuff dude and had a ton of heart and always came up with the big play when needed. And he threw a beautiful long ball.

 

Bradshaw
Rothlisberger
O'Donnel
Layne
Batch
Stewart
Brister
Maddox
Tomzak
Malone

(Spelling?)
I do not like all of these guys, but the list must be 10 even if credit was given to ability to earn the starting job and being the QB on a great team.

 

I know most will always say Bradshaw was better. That comes with winning 4 SB's. But the reality is Bradshaw had a much, much better team around him and was asked to do a lot less than Roethlisberger is asked to do. Bradshaw's stats in his first SB were 9-14 for 96 yards and 1 TD. Not exactly lighting it up. In his second SB his stats were 9-19 for 209 yards and 2 TD's. So for his first 2 SB's he averaged 9 completions a game and about 150 yards. That wasn't dominating stats even back then. Roethlisberger has never had the talent at RB, WR or O-line that Bradshaw had to work with. I will give everyone that Roethlisberger is #2 all time due to the SB wins, but will say to you that Roethliberger is a lot more important to the success of the current Steelers than Bradshaw was to the Steelers of the 70's.

 

You have to balance that with the fact that the game wasn't completely rigged back then to help the quarterbacks. Shoot, if we went by stats, the best QBs whoever lived are all playing right now. And one of them is Tony Romo. The game has changed so much not just since the 70s, but since Ben came into the league. It's a league now where Chad Henne throws for 400 yards, Matt Flynn gets his first start and throws for 500, and like 11 TDs, and it's barely even worth mentioning.

I don't want to deny anything to Ben, because he's done a lot on his own. This is one of those things that's just too hard to compare, because the game has changed so much. If I had to choose, I'd say Bradshaw still has him beaten, especially with Ben's 1-1-1 SB record (one good, one bad, one okay). But that's not to say Ben can't pass him eventually.

 

As I posted above, Bradshaw was the offensive coordinator back then. The Steelers didn't have one. They didn't even have a QB coach (at least not after his first two seasons). So when people say Bradshaw wasn't asked to do much, how is running the entire offense NOT being asked to do much? He called every play. Every one of them. Every running play that got Franco a SB record (at the time) for rushing was called by Bradshaw, particularly at the LOS. And he did this without the plays on his wristband and a headset in his helmet.

And I disagree with the final point, since you say "a lot more important." The Steelers would not have won anything if Bradshaw had not finally figured things out and gotten a rhythm late in the 74 season. They were lost with Gilliam at QB and lost with Hanratty at QB. Once Bradshaw got it together (a sense of playcalling), it was lights out.

 

Bradshaw had better players at every position except TE to work with on the offense. Thats 9 players of 10. Roethlisberger has had to deal with a horribe O line, a mediocre running game and a midde of the pack WR crew (not in the same sentence with Swann and Stallworth.) No way Bradshaw was more important to his teams than Roethlisberger is to his.

 

But it's all relative. How many potential HOFers did Ben face in his Super Bowls? maybe two? Clay Matthews and Charles Woodson? He faced none against Seattle and Arizona. And he's faced very few in any post-season games: ray Lewis and ed Reed are the only two who come to mind. Bradshaw faced HOFers right and left. Minnesota: Eller, Page, and Krauss. Dallas: White and Renfro. LA Rams: Jack Youngblood. And don't even get me started on the number of All-Pros they faced.

 

Kurt Warner will make the Hall, Fitz ... not sure but he's a beast.
Seattle I'll agree with you

 

I meant on defense, the players Ben actually faced. Sorry. Should have been more specific.

 

1. Terry Bradshaw
2, Ben Roethlisberger
3 Neil O'Donnell
4. Kordell Stewart see Mark Malone.
5. Bobby Lane
6. Mike Tomczack
7. Bill Nelson Oh those days Pitt Stadium YEA.
8 Mark Malone Should have stayed at WR
9. Jefferson Street Joe Gilliam Oh the Emperor had a way, what was he thinking?
10 Terry Hanratty LOL

 

you sure about that .. .? What about Tommy Gun lol

 

#8 if memory serves......He goes in ...The rest...catagory!! Has a shot at knocking out Hanratty. Its close!!!

 

my top 10

1. Ben Roethlisberger
2, Terry Bradshaw
3 Neil O'Donnell
4. Bobby Lane
5.Kordell Stewart
6. Jim Finks
7. Bubby Brister
8 Mark Malone
9. Ed Brown
10 Tommy Maddox

 

Not bad.

As I've said before, I think the competition is really in the mid-levels. I would also put Brister above Malone, but who was actually the better technical QB? Malone was capable, above-journeyman level, just perhaps not anywhere near as he personally thought he was. And he could play WR. Brister, on the other hand, did not seem quite as polished, but I had more faith in him as a player. When he was called upon, he performed fairly well.

Ah, those were the days... back when I first started watching Steeler football, in fact.