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Steelers FANS can learn from the Giants

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Rush2seven, May 3, 2019.

  1. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    To repeat the title, this is about the fans.

    Some people want Ben gone. They say he’s old and done. Some start threads wondering if Rudolph is the future.

    At this point, I can only think of 2 maybe 3 instances where a legend was adequately replaced immediately.

    Steve Young for Montana
    Aaron Rogers for Favre
    And, maybe Andrew Luck for P Manning.

    With both Young and Rogers, they were talented QBs that sat on the bench for a while. Luck played right away.

    So, what do the Giants do? Clearly, they are ready to move on. The Steelers, fresh off of extending Ben, are not. Will Daniel Jones sit on the bench, and perhaps the better for it when he does play? Or does he immediately start and take the growing and learning lumps?

    Some QBs never complete their first start (see Cleveland QBs that start first game vs Steelers and are sacked 7 times in first half). Some barely make it through rookie season.

    Replacing a legend is hard. The Giants and Daniel Jones may provide a glimpse of just how hard that is. If and when they do, perhaps that gives Steelers Fans pause when wanting to show Ben the door.
     
  2. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Well that’s time in my life I will never get back.
     
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  3. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the insight about an off season thread topic.

    The irony that you complain about time, while investing time to respond is not overlooked.
     
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  4. groutbrook

    groutbrook

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    Eli will start but the Giants will look for any excuse to bench him in favor of the rookie. Just like they did when Eli was a rookie and supplanted Kurt Warner.
     
  5. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Agree, and when that happens either Jones plays like Eli in his prime or like Landry Jones....which doesn’t mean he won’t be good, just the rookie QBs that lose 13 games happens more often that rookies who win 13.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    My guess is Eli gets the first 10 games. They then have the bye week. If Jones is gonna start I'd imagine it's going to be after the bye ,so he has 2weeks to get starter reps in practice. As long as the Giants are playing well Eli will be the QB....obviously :smiley1:
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    Weren't we looking for any reason to start Ben over Maddox? Ben's rookie year. Maddox wasn't a hof qb but Ben fell to us by luck. We evaluate QBs like we CB's. We think that we can find a future starter in the latter rounds. We go after mediocre and hope for hof ... lol
     
  8. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Lets let it play out, see what happens.
     
  9. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    As painful as the remembrance of his 2 picks in the SB are, Neil O'Donnell (a 3rd round pick) played well enough to get the Steeler's to the SB and an AFC championship game the previous year. Probably would have had another couple of runs had he stayed with the team. No doubt in today's NFL 1rs round QB's seem to be a must, but even then half (or more) of those QB's never really perform to that expected level. Ben fell to the Steelers that year and we were very lucky to get him.

    I do not think we evaluate QB's like CB's, nor do I think they draft a QB in the mid to latter rounds to develop a decent 'back up'. Like any position if you have someone of value on your board you choose that individual with expectation to develop and improve your team. I do not see the QB position as any different than other positions. It is evident Ben was/is going to be the starter, it was also evident that Landry Jones was not going to be a long term replacement if Ben retired or had a career ending injury. I personally do not see spending a 4th one year, then a 3rd the next as 'wasted picks'. The draft is a crap shoot anyway, you evaluate, pick, then develop that player. If Rudolph supplants Dobb's as b/u this year he will get more snaps and looks in practices, and of course gets looks in game situations if Ben goes down.

    I have no idea if either b/u QB is out eventual starter, or short/long term answer for Ben. His contract extension (if played out) will take him into Rudolph's 4th year (assuming the team put's the 4th year tender on him). It will be an interesting year as the CBA will run out that year, and the team (if the league plays at all) will have to make a decision. Franchise Rudolph for one year (of that will still be available), pick up a journeyman QB as FA, or perhaps draft as high as you can and get lucky again.
     
  10. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    What’s the alternative?
     
  11. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I don't think taking Dobbs and Rudolph was indicative of the team looking for its future starter in the later rounds. They were value picks at the time, and guys that the team felt could be solid NFL QBs in time. You need quality depth at the QB position to avoid having a massive slump when your starter goes down with an injury. I believe that someone in the organization (maybe Colbert) was quoted as saying that they had a 1st round grade on Rudolph. If they were actually looking for the future starting QB, they wouldn't have waited until the 3rd round to pull the trigger. The team already had Jones and Dobbs behind Ben, and when the 3rd round rolled around the value was too much to pass up on.
     
  12. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    We have many quality players around Ben right now. Less two top players. Quantity over quality of you will. That not only helps Ben but would help any qb that may step in. We have a really good line leading the way. Eli hasn't been provided that, so it will be harder to succeed for him and even harder on the newbie daniels. We have made the situation easier here for a transition but will it be that way when the time does come? I think not. We are loading up for bens success and when he is done so will many that made him successful but the next qb may be looked at as a bust when it's not exactly like apples to apples in comparison.:cool:
     
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  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    We have many quality players around Ben right now. Less two top players. Quantity over quality of you will. That not only helps Ben but would help any qb that may step in. We have a really good line leading the way. Eli hasn't been provided that, so it will be harder to succeed for him and even harder on the newbie daniels. We have made the situation easier here for a transition but will it be that way when the time does come? I think not. We are loading up for bens success and when he is done so will many that made him successful but the next qb may be looked at as a bust when it's not exactly like apples to apples in comparison.:cool:
     
  14. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Nicely put some people want to complain about threads they don't like instead of just moving on. There is getting to be a lot of that here lately(see my sig as a person who does that) and it is a shame cause this is a great place with a lot of good peple to talk with......

    Anyways onto you post I think this is something we should watch. Yeah Ben signed a 2 year extensions but what if he has another one of them 5 int games and he wants to hang it up? Or what if he comes out of the gate firing on all cylinders and leads us to #7 and then walks away? The end is near and seeing how other teams handle their star QB is worth watching. Yeah we can trade up in hopes to find Ben replacement but that is no sure thing either. Is Mason the replacement, cause if Ben does play 2 more years there won't be any time for him to show he is and we will be facing a tough decision to pay him the money or let him go. Finding a rookie QB who is good to play under the rookie salary is something that is very important. Look how that worked for Seattle, Rams and Philly to name a few. jmo. :thumbs_up:
     
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  15. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. I would say Dobbs was a pick for upside and depth,not really knowing but hoping based on his athletic ability and smarts he would turn into something more. As far as Rudolph.....don't we have a first round grade on all our picks?;). I think the selection of Rudolph had a lot to do with Ben threatening to retire. Pretty sure that worried them a little. I think they saw starter potential in Rudolph but were looking to shore up the roster for the now with the early picks. Like you said when he was still sitting there they almost had to make the move because the value was really good. We haven't seen him play enough yet but you have to love his attitude so far. Seems like he's more than willing to put in the work necessary to make a name for himself.
     
  16. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    Big difference between eli's current production as opposed to Ben's
     
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  17. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    I just read an article suggesting that if the team believes in Rudolph, sitting on the bench could make his second contract team friendly.
     
  18. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, the question is, do the Steelers believe in Rudolph? If so, great. If not, do they invest a high pick while Ben is still playing or wait until he retires.
     
  19. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    All indications point to the staff and f.o. believing in both of the young backups..
    It's no coincidence that Ben's extension coincides with the expiration of Rudolph's rookie deal
     
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  20. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    So you complain about people complaining?
     
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  21. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    It's a catch 22. I do not know how the current CBA expiring will affect all of this, but let's speculate for the heck of it. Ben retires and Rudolph is playing on the last year of his tendered contract. The Steelers options (if not long term deal were reached), franchise tag him at 30 million (give or take), let him walk and try to sign a FA QB, or take your chances on the draft and sign a temporary vet.

    Of course this is all speculation and a long way off and they may trade one or both, and draft someone else next year, lol.

    I really see no reason why Rudolph would sign a hometown deal, especially seeing he could be a FA in the year the CBA expires. To much uncertainty and potential changes to sign before then, JMHO.
     
  22. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Chances of getting a opportunity to select a top QB are pretty slim as long as Ben is playing. Even at 8-8 for the next 3 years we won't get a sniff of a elite QB coming out. 8-8 would have to get us in the top 10 and that would still probably require a trade up unless there is a very talented group all in one draft,just like the year we got Ben. Sorry to say but it looks like we would need a pretty bad year by our standards to get in a QB "lottery" of sorts. Which is fine by me because I'm a firm believer that if your not first.....you're last We're gonna need a influx of new talent in 3 years or so.
     
  23. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    The article I referenced wasn’t saying it could be a hometown deal, as in he takes less to play here. Rather, if he doesn’t play, his stock doesn’t rise and therefore doesn’t demand a huge contract. Thus, for the team moving on, they would be able to spend more on the pieces around him.
     
  24. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    All I see the Big Ben extension being is essentially a "Race Against Time" message for young Mason. Whether or not he will be ready by then will be critical. His first big test comes this Preseason where he will have to beat out Joshua Dobbs for the number two spot. No exceptions.


    If he does not, that will not bode well for any of us in the short term. Long term is of another story. Who knows who the likes of Kevin Colbert is scouting right now?!
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  25. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Rudolph is the future of this team.

    And yes, gotta wear shades :cool:
     
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