Start the NOT TO RESIGN BA thread: State your reasons

IDK how I've missed it before, but I love your screen name

 

That's unfortunate, since you made many good points. Just wondering though in case you do decide to respond, how many more years would you give BA to improve the things you listed? If Ben is changing the plays and it's not getting the desired results, it's on the coaching to sit him down and tell him to cut it out. If he's making constant bad throws, it's on the coaching to sit him down and tell him to smarten up. It's also on the coaching to get him to watch more tape so they can point out what needs to be done instead.

The buddy/buddy relationship seems to prevent any type of coaching though. So how many more years would you give him before you would acknowledge that it's time to move on? He's had 5 years.

 

Are you watching the Saints 49ers game? At one point in the 2nd Q, the Saints ran FIVE consecutive plays from the empty set.

How is this Arians fault? Does he actually throw the ball?

Again, how is this BAs fault?


Ooops, I responded. Okay this was my last. I promise!

 

Arians failures and incompetence has been documented and proven over and over again. The mark of a good coach should be to get a group of players to play above their level. All BA has done is gotten an incredibly deep talented and loaded squad to look average or below average. BA is the poster child for underachievement. It would be OK if we were the Browns or the Lions. But not acceptable for the greatest NFL franchise in history.

F.B.A.I.

 

I didn't want to respond, because I didn't want to get sucked into a big long debate tonight, I want to watch the Pats/Tebow game. But I broke my promise, so...

I don't know how long you give him. Thats up to the Rooneys and Tomlin. I trust the Rooneys track record though. They don't make knee jerk reactions and we fans are very fortunate that they don't.

And yes it is up to the coaching staff to fix Ben. But how fixable is he? It is well documented that he's a pretty arrogant guy. But he is a special player at the most important position. As much as you don't want to cater to attitudes, its not easy to give up on the best QB since #12. Someone they've been searching for for 20 years. Like it or not, right or not, Im sure there is some crap eating that goes on regarding him. I don't think any other player on the Steelers survives given what he's done. They'd have been shown the door long ago. Cedric Wilson anyone? Santonio Holmes anyone?

Ben and BA are close. Do you really want to pee off your star QB by firing him? Again, I know he shouldn't be bigger than the team, but is he? I don't think there is any question that it is him who put the Steelers over the top these last 6 years. The defense was always there, but they lacked a stud QB. Now they got one and they have 3 SB trips in 6 years. I really think this team works around Ben.

 

BA contributes absolutely nothing to the success of the Steelers. As I stated in another thread, without Big Ben's uncanny ability to make something out of nothing, I would shudder at how inept and anemic our offense would be. I feel BA's lack of creativity and stubborn refusal or inability to make adjustments on the fly is the sole reason our potentially explosive and dynamic offense is just wretchedly mediocre.

Get rid of BA immediately. Big Ben is the reason for BA's presumed success. Not the other way around.

 

I personally think the Steelers should move on without Arians. I don't think he has done a terrible job just not the type of football Steelers fans desire. To play the type of offense that Arians wants to play you need a good offensive line, heck you need that to play any kind of offense though. At some point he has to understand that he don't have the type players to run his offense. Don't get me wrong we have some decent records with him so he must be doing something right. If the Steelers decide to keep him I won't be mad, I just hope he gets things going with a little more consistency.

 

Ben Roethlisberger
Mike Wallace
Antonio Brown
Emmanuel Sanders
Jerricho Cotchery
Hines Ward
Heath Miller
Rashard Mendenhall
Isaac Redman

Result: 21st in scoring. FAIL. Fired.

 

First let me thank you for responding with some points worthy of debate. I know it seems like a flame fest but believe it or not we can have intelligent discussions on Steeler topics.

I agree.

I agree it is because the Steelers have poor running game, and its not because of talent. It has to do with the formations they run plays out of.
I don't agree to blame it on injuries, Arians has had this redzone and running game problem for 5 years. He didn't have a great track record in clevand either.
They scored 3 rushing TD's with Charlie in because Arians calls a completely different game with Batch in. He doesn't trust Charlie to throw the ball more than 10 yards (he can, see last year TB and Ravens game). Also the Rams were the worst run D in the league. It was a good move to focus more on running in that game, however I still think the sum of all his miscues doesn't make up for calling a semi decent game vs the 2-14 rams.

See my above statement

I have no problem saying Ben is poor at reading defenses but still tries to emulate Peyton Manning. He may change some plays but ultimately it is up to the coach to put together the best game plan for the team to win, whether it hurts Ben's feelings or not. I have heard Ben say before all he cares about winning, so I'm sure he will get over it. Also over the years Ben runs the no huddle more efficiently down the field (between the 20s) then the offense does when Arians is making calls. However, Ben, Arians and Tomlin are TERRIBLE with timeouts and clock management.

Ben was a huge turnover machine in some games. It definitely killed us. I agree. It also was odd the D didnt create any pressure up front or create turnovers, but thats a different story.

While I agree some blame falls on Ben and the other players, these guys are professionals who play NFL football for a living. They work probably 6-7 days a week on perfecting their craft. BA has had 5 years to get in a Rhythm with Ben, Hines, and Heath and 3 years with Wallace and 2 with Brown. They must know their Oline is below average, to not be able to go "Gee we really could help our oline out if we ran proper running back screens" or "Our Qb is injured, but because we wont tell Ben to sit, let's call 50 passing plays from under center and not shotgun" is ridiculous.

Without opening another can of worms I think we can agree that the philosophy of the Whisenhunt Era vs the Arians era were on opposite ends the specturm. With WH we were playing Cower Ball were we would run it down their throats, get creative and score 1-2 tds then sit on the lead and run the clock out. Rarely did we trail in the 4th quarter. Under Arians the philosophy has been gunsling it down the field and go for the homerun everytime. They have been trying to emulate a Peyton Manning type Offense of quick strike. So I think its pretty sad that even with this mentality Arians scores less than the Whisenhunt era

Agreed, oline and player picks is a Tomlin/ Colbert thing.

While I agree that the offense could *probably* be fixed with Arians here. The reason many of us want him out of here because it has been 5 years of the same exact thing. There hasn't been any improvements besides Ben's season yard total which means nothing.


One other thing I wanted to touch on is the people saying "This game was the Defenses fault, or this game was the O's fault".
This is how I see it, the game is a team sport. When the O does bad, turns the ball over and can't score it puts the Defense in a very bad position. When the Defense does bad it puts the pressure on the offense to keep scoring.
In 2011 and 2012 the NFL is an offense based league. You can dictate the entire game with your offense. With all the rules favoring the offense it is the most important part of the game
Dont want the other team to score? - construct long drives that lead to points
Want to tire out the other teams defense - construct dink and dunk offense with the no huddle
How do you win the game? - score points

Defense has to react to the offense. These top qbs and teams have gotten so good at timing and back shoulder passes it is sometimes almost impossible even for the best defense to stop offenses from scoring. I am saying as long as any defense is on the field their chances of stopping the opposing team from scoring are usually going down because the offense finds mismatches and exploits them

/endrant

 

You know whats funny is that anyone trying to justify BA has responded with only a snippy remark or a wise-crack instead of trying to provide reasoning why BA is worth a bag of rocks.

One person has tried to present reasoning to keep BA, and that reasoning involved the RAMS.

Can we get some thought in here? Maybe some actual discussion instead of "Then you go do it!" "What makes you so special?"

Personally, I'm in the fire B.A boat. (Or he can retire, that's cool too.) I've seen a million reasons to let him go and one unjustified reason to keep him.

 

:thumbsup:

Well I could go back and cite 4 other games at the start of the 2010 season, but those were so long ago that I though for sure those would be discredited as an ancient history.

Perhaps you would like to dispute my reasoning involving the Rams without the snippy remark that it was just "the RAMS."

 

He should have been fired 3 years ago. Has Ben improved under BA?
Is the Steeler offense the type you want to watch? Has the offense improved under BA?

 

No, you actually made some good points, that perhaps BA calls the games based on what Ben wants rather than what's best for the team. That's just another reason to fire BA. We need a coach as an OC, not Ben's best friend.

 

Before I respond, I'm trying to understand:

Is this the petition to "Not to re-sign BA?"

Or

"Note to re-sign BA?"

Or

"Note for BA to resign?"

 

And then why not a thread about Tomlin and hell while we're at it let's have a "Fire Rooney" thread.

 

How can you honestly justify keeping Arians? Seriously??? The SB argument has already been shot to pieces and we played garbage teams this year to get to 12-4... so besides those 2 overused arguments what on earth has this guy done to justify staying?

BTW I don't think Lebeau should have a free pass either, but Arians incompetence has hurt this team much more than anything mishaps on Lebeau's part.[/quote:16a3bx4k]

Like I have said before, and I will say again. If you can do it better, THEN DO IT!!!!! Put together you resume and hand it in.[/quote:16a3bx4k]

You know what NM, you can't come up with anything else except telling people if they can do it better then put their resumes in? Your don't have any argument better then that? Man, wake up and stop looking at the situation with your eyes wide shut! If BA stays and the offense gets no better and stays the same, what will be your excuse then?

I already know that Steeler Nation, you included will be really pissed off next year when BA and the Steelers offense produces the same result. It will be unbearable to watch when they march the ball up and down the field between the 20's as the redzone efficiency won't change. BA's non ability to use hie TE's and RB's properly will be doomsday for the Steelers again.

Remember I said it!!!!

 

Here I copied & pasted the thread title: NOT TO RESIGN BA thread: State your reasons

I don't see the word "note" in there. Is it really that hard to understand? Sheesh!

 

Is that good enough for you NM? A fan who knows something about football because they can see many of BA's faults. Its easy to see, all you have to do is open your eyes. Stop talkling about the Rooneys and how you trust them to do the right thing. Maybe they are looking at the situation with their eyes wide shut. Mr. Rooney already told Tomlin after the 2010 season that he wanted them to start focusing on running the ball better. What does BA do in 2011, he reverts back to throwing the ball all over the yard. That by itself constitutes not bringing BA back!

This is a good argument. As you can see, there are not many arguments that support BA.

 

Looked like a typo in your post.

 

I've stated my reasons before and after watching the games yesterday I am even more frustrated.I am to the point where it literally makes me sick just thinking about him coming back.Nothing is going to change and we will be having the same discussion next year at this time. So the number 1 reason not to re-sign him is because he sucks, plain and simple. Number 2 reason is, see number 1. I saw that someone stated in another post"well he can come back if he changes this, that and the other thing" then what is the point. He has shown over the last 5 years he isn't going to change a thing.It's just really time to move on.

 

If that's the best justification you can present than I really can't even rationalize having this debate with you...[/quote:l6y7edqm]


My justification is that I trust in the Rooneys to do the right thing. The Steelers have more hardware (in the SB era) than any other team. I love this team and always will. I just hate it when we have a bad loss (the debacle in denver) and everyone comes unglued. We are fans, pasionate fans, not players, coaches, or decision makers for the Steelers. We just have to trust in the family that has put us on top for so many seasons. Be bad, upset, etc, etc,. But be glad we are not Cleveland fans.[/quote:l6y7edqm]

I trust the Rooney's to put a competitive team on the field most years, but I want more than that. When I see ways to improve the offence (which has been bad for 5 years now) and it isn't being done, that's frustrating. I don't care if we're 16-0, if there are ways to improve the team, it should be done. BA has held this offence back for 5 years, and I've been calling for him to be fired for 3 years now. This loss to Denver has nothing to do with most people wanting BA gone. Besides, I would assume it's Tomlin's decision to either keep or get rid of BA, not the Rooney's, and I have little trust in Tomlin these days.[/quote:l6y7edqm]

You present a good argument Shaner82. Its very logical when you say that you expect the Rooney's to put a competitve team on the field as I and many others do but, as a fan we deserve more especially when you can see flaws in the team and there is a better way to improve the team by getting better if you make some easy changes. At that point it gets very frustrating as you stated. One of the very easy changes at the top of the list is to make a change at OC because what is so very easy to see is that the current OC has really hurt this team with his incompetence and it is totally unacceptable for the fans. It is the Rooney's responsibility to put the best product on the field for the fans. What they put on the field with BA as the OC is not the best product!

 

This is a great argument for you NM. The last statement is good enough as a fan who can clearly see that there is a problem with the offense: he said if you didn't see it because you are looking with yor eyes wide shut, "JUST TO CLARIIFY, I AM NOT A FOOTBALL EXPERT, HOWEVER I CAN SEE THAT THE STEELERS ARE LACKING IN EFFICIENCY IN THEIR OFFENSE AND HAS VAST ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT"!!!!

Everyone can see it, its not that complicated. Also, as bigplaywillygay stated, it will be very hard to watch if BA comes back with the SOS, SAME OLD S _ _ _, with the same results. My faith in Tomlin will expire.

 

I have read a few articles that have stated that Arians is coming back. I don't bye it at all. Where is this information coming from? I don't believe that Tomlin is that naive.

Here is a scenario: Tomlin and BA are watching the New Orleans vs San Francisco Game and having a conversation.

Tomlin: BA did you see how Brees thru 15 passes to Darrin Sproles out of the backfield? Did you see the screens to the RB's? Brees is always looking to throw that ball to his TE Jimmy Graham. They pass the ball with a purpose. Sproles caught a total of 15 passes from Brees. That was great!
BA: Yes I checked that out. I'm very impressed. I wonder how they do that. Coach Sean Payton is a genious as the OC. He really knows his stuff.

Tomlin and BA are watching the Patriots vs Broncos game.

Tomlin: BA, that Brady is awesome. Did you see how he uses his short passing game to his receivers. How about how he uses his TE's. That was a great wrinkle when they used their TE Hernandez as a running back, it suprised Denver. Man, Brady thru 6 TD's in the game, set a new record. That was great!
BA: That was a very impressive performance by New England. How can Brady just stand there and throw that ball so quickly to those receivers on those short routes? How do thay design that? Why does he use his TE's so much. 6 TD's thats amazing. Coach "T", who is the Patriots OC?
Tomlin: Thats the guy O'Brian who got the Head Coaching job at Penn State. They already got his replacement, Josh McDaniels who was the Head Coach at Denver last year. He was the OC before O'Brian with them. Thats why they brought him back.
BA: Coach, I don't understand why my name is never mentioned for any of the head coach vacancies? Christ, there were six openings this year. Romeo Cranel even got the head coaching job at KC after being fired as the Browns head coach. I haven't even had an interview for a head job.
Tomlin: Don't worry BA, your time is fastly approaching.

 

Yes BOBBYBIZ I did see the Saints and 9ers game. I did see the empty backfields. I did see the AWESOME numbers Drew Brees put up. I also saw the most important number which was the final score. Did you happen to miss that part?