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Stafford

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Disco1981, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Fair enough. :drinks:


    If there is any consolation prize with Goff (for now), Lions General Manager Brad Holmes is very familiar with how Jared Goff can maximize his talent. Perhaps you are right. That said, remember there is an out for Holmes and the Lions in 2023 as Goff can be cut for Zero Dead Cap. I do hope for the Lions sake they at least give that position some consideration as Fields, Wilson and Lance all possess greater potential than Jared Goff....


    .... or... perhaps Goff proves all of us wrong, the Lions draft well and are perennial playoff contenders for the foreseeable future. We will have to wait and see! :)
     
  2. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Oh, that could happen, they cut him in 2023 but I thought you were saying they would draft a QB this year or next. What kind of message would that send to Goff when he has already said he is just excited to be with a team that wants him.
     
  3. Steelrules

    Steelrules Well-Known Member

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    Yes he throws so much because he wants to. He gets away with that because we had a spineless OC that caters to all of Ben’s wishes
     
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  4. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Detroit could really draft a QB if they wanted to. However, that much is dependent on how much Dan Campbell buys into his abilities as a whole. I do wholeheartedly believe this move was a Brad Holmes move so I doubt Campbell did much of anything. That said, the draft is still months away so anything can happen!
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  5. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Seems you're getting some wires crossed. Dead money only applies to that paid to a player no longer on the team's roster. For the Rams, that's Goff. The amount of the DM hit is the total of all prorated bonuses for the remainder of the player's contract. For Goff, that's $6.8M x 3 + $1.8M = $22.2M. The remainder of his annual base and guaranteed salaries transfer over to the Lions.

    As for Stafford, the Rams now pick up his base/guaranteed salary, and roster/option bonuses annually for the remainder of his contract. For 2021, it's $10M + $9.5M + $0.5M = $20M.

    So for 2021 the Rams stand to charged $42.2M for Goff and Stafford, $22.2M of which is dead money. After that Goff is off the Rams' books.
     
  6. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    He had to throw that much in order for the team to win.
     
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  7. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Ben did show he can throw down field with some zip, he just needs to be more consistent, look at the throws he made against the Colts in the second half also in the second half against the browns.
     
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  8. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    https://theramswire.usatoday.com/20...rams-trading-jared-goff-for-matthew-stafford/


    Here is where I am getting the numbers from. Keep in mind for L.A. that I am accounting for both Stafford and Goff; not just one.
     
  9. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I think what he and I were both saying is that the cost they are taking on in relation to Stafford is salary rather than dead cap. Dead cap only relates to players no longer on your roster. Stafford will be on their roster.

    The overall cost you quoted at $70m is correct, albeit I expect them to extend Matt Stafford, thereby changing that number significantly
     
  10. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Yup, this is what I’m saying.

     
  11. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    His numbers are not bad, and his winning % is really good. The winning % is sometimes used to much for or against a QB, because it is the totality of team effort. That said, if they give him the right tools and system he is a proven winner, let's see if they can give him those tools.
     
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  12. chris2fer

    chris2fer Well-Known Member

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    The Rams won’t have 1st round picks for years and might be one of the most mismanaged teams in the league. They paid Goff way too much now they will pay for it.
     
  13. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    I mean....


    In all honesty, no matter however this is getting looked at, Detroit made off like bandits in my opinion. For that matter, to expect the NFC West to be more of the same is the furthest thing from the truth.... perhaps with the exception of the Arizona Cardinals as I still am not fully sold on either Murray or Kliff as a whole.


    That said, whomever will emerge as big winners of this will not be known for certain until the end of the 2023 season at the earliest. 2021 is too early to tell barring a Super Bowl appearance for Matthew Stafford with a losing record by Detroit or a playoff appearance by Detroit and anything less than a Super Bowl for the Rams with Matthew Stafford. Never mind any of this as those draft picks have to be factored in as well for Detroit and how successful they will be with them; 2022 being another year in which the aforementioned cases of 2021 need to be applied here in addition to the picks.


    For me, the Lions made off like bandits.
     
  14. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    I'm not trying to pick apart your post, but IMHO it's prudent to be as accurate as possible when reporting facts and figures - especially with something as complex as the NFL's salary cap. Oftentimes beat writers fan spark into fire by using other unsubstantiated articles/links ("according to a report"...) as the foundation for their headlines. It's lazy writing, and often propagates misinformation.

    With respect to your post, you highlighted your emphasis on the Rams' dead money hit by prefacing it with "nevermind any of that though...", dismissing the potential downfalls of the trade for the Rams if they don't when a SB, resign Stafford, or acquire his replacement all within the next few years to highlight what the Rams were taking on financially. If the Rams were truly shouldering $77M in 'dead money", that would represent a massive number - especially in light of the estimated $185M - $195M cap being thrown around for 2021.

    But the article you linked doesn't reference a $77M dead money hit to the Rams. It reports what is owed by them for Goff in 2021 - which IS dead money - and what Stafford's cap hit curently is for 2021 & '22, along with options for reducing the latter amount. This all being info pertinent to what Rams/Lions fans (and others) may be wondering with two high profile players being exchanged.

    I clarified primarily because cap strategy is a prime topic for the Steelers right now. Ben's return - perhaps Pouncey's as well - has many wondering how they'll work it all out while retaining young talent and acquiring the pieces to continue on past '21. Provding accurate information on cap inner workings is best for those seeking to understand it, especially now.

    But it's all good. I think we can all agree that this was a significantly aggressive move by the Rams. They inked Goff to a substantial extension after his 2018 campaign, and his numbers since haven't matched that performance. There were already rumblings they might be getting anxious given their defense and playmakers on offense, but it was hard to see anyone taking on Goff's contract. Enter the Lions with an unhappy Stafford. The draft picks were undoubtedly a leverage to Goff's $$, but also a high, and risky, maneuver.

    As you said, a lot can happen in a few years. We'll see how this one pans out.
     
  15. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

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    What kind of moves are the Saints thinking about?

    Either one of these guys would be good for them, and hurt your opponent.
     
  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Yes. The article does not reference a $77 Million Dollar Dead Cap as the article is detailing both Stafford's and Goff's Cap Hits separately. Not in terms of just Stafford or Goff on one accrued season. What I did was combine both of their Dead Cap Charges over a two year period. The $77 Million Dollar figure is a total over two seasons and not one unlike the article which split up the totals of Goff and Stafford between 2021 and 2022. Either way it is essentially a Hail Mary if I ever saw one from a team.



    Regarding what should the Steelers do with Big Ben, sadly, not much they can. Not much currently as we still do not truly know the draft's current outcome or how teams will proceed with their evaluations other than just mere tape. Pittsburgh is within the same boat but there is a chance that even someone like Trey Lance could fall to pick 24; Pittsburgh trading up being the other. However, for the latter idea to work, Pittsburgh would have to be within striking distance; more so than they were with Devin Bush Jr. from two seasons ago to obtain someone like him.



    .... Again, this is assuming that the Steelers have Trey Lance ranked that high to begin with in the first place. Who knows what Pittsburgh's Board is like?! Keep in mind, the time in which teams essentially suspend their scouting is anywhere between Mid November to Mid December depending on the type of prospects they are scouting; not including surprises either. More often than not, teams usually wrap up scouting due to already having sufficient information on them dating back to their days in their Freshman Year; some even in Senior High School.
     
  17. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    LA thinks with their D they have a chance to win a SB next year. I don’t think they give a **** about the future if 2021 results in a championship. Stafford is an upgrade without question. They have the receivers, a good enough run game, and a stout defense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  18. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Dead money is not spread over two seasons. It applies to one, and is the remainder of any prorated signing bonus and unpaid guaranteed salary dollars at the time the player is released. The latter does not apply with trades, as the new team assumes responsibility for the player's salary.

    Your previous post stated the Rams would be taking on $77M in dead cap space over the next two years. That is incorrect. The only dead money they'll have under their cap is the remainder of Goff's prorated bonus from 2021-2024, $22.2M, which will hit them in 2021.

    As for Stafford, he is due $20M in base salary and roster/workout bonuses in 2021 and $23M in '22. It's not dead money as he's with the Rams, but even if you add these figures to Goff's DM hit in '21 the max total the Rams currently have to account under their cap in this trade is $65.2M over the next two years. But they will likey restructure Stafford this offseason as needed to reduce his number.
     
  19. The Sodfather

    The Sodfather Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy for both the Lions and Matt Stafford. I like Stafford, he deserves a shot at a winner asap. The Lions, having been the NFL's lovable losers, save for some of Wayne Fontes' years when they had Barry Sanders, finally look to be turning the corner. I always sort of felt bad for the Lions and their fan base.
     
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  20. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    He is probably in seventh heaven, wouldn't you be? LOL
     
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  21. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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  22. Black Steel

    Black Steel Member

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    They still have Gurley dead money...
     
  23. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there are exceptions. The Rams apparently included specific language as to when Gurley was to get certain bonuses irrespective of proration. Similar to roster/option bonus, hitting them in specific years despite his being cut from the the team and onto another.
     

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