Speculation Does the Team have a no BB plan?

yeah it kinda was. Don't you remember they limited the amount of field he had to look at, only had two progressions, didn't have him taking shots down field to often and relied heavily on Bettis and the ground game, In fact it was when they gave him more to do that the wheels came off, that and the cheating Pats

 

you're kidding... would want DD over ben.. or even over batch for that matter... oh wait .. 31 coaches would.. of the 31 other teams

 

hey, manning may be looking for a team. maybe we could run the option with him.

 

Manning would be on a stretcher in pre-season behind our line

 

where have i seen this problem before? hmmmm................

 

Thanks, thorn. Spot on.

 

Somebody please tell me why I was bashed when I started the post about getting a deal in a BR trade? As it has been mentioned, PWP makes a good, and compelling, argument, here. And it's what I've been thinking about.

Considering Rothlisbergers age and health, why wouldn’t it be smart to try and upgrade your TEAM by trading him? What’s wrong with Matt Stafford of Detroit, or RG III in the draft, or even some other talent who might be out their in the draft. What’s wrong with DD getting a shot with a new OC? And what’s wrong with trying to get some extra draft picks and/or players to upgrade your team?

Come on people, were is your nerve?

Rukus4ever makes another good point when he said; why is it that the minute someone questions Ben it is considered "bashing," but discussion about trading any other player is fair game?

One thing is for sure about Ben is that he is very selfish and attention grabbing. The 49ers game comes to mind. He should not have played but, it is my belief that he insisted on playing like always. Even in the Browns game, he should not have played in the second half. Not to mention him playing in the pro bowl with his ankle injury, however, he is going to play anyway. Troy isn’t playing, T-Sizzle from the Ravens isn’t playing and some others who have minor injuries and will rest their bodies and heal properly. Even Ben admitted that his ankle was not healed 100%. So why is he playing in the game? It can’t be because of money!

As I stated in my post about a deal for Rothlisberger:
The Vikings have the 3rd pick.
The Redskins have the 6th pick and they are suckers for any trade. We could probably get three picks from them and a player.
The Dolphins have the 8th pick and they have WR Brandon Marshall on the team. He would have to be in the deal.
The Cardinals have the 13th pick and CB Patrick Peterson as a great player who would have to be in the deal.

Mendenhall could also be thrown in the deal with any of these teams.

These are all viable teams with the exception of the Vikings who need a QB and might be willing to make a trade with us for BR.
My thing is that more draft picks are always better. All players can be replaced.

 

The reason the other players are safer to talk about than Ben is because we had all those puzzle pieces in different forms over the years and still couldn't win a Super Bowl. How on earth would anybody want to see Dixon starting over Ben?..

 

The main reason would be attitude....It all starts with Ben I thought I was clear on that.....I do not want a QB starting who thinks he is above the Team....I do not want a QB changing all the plays because they don't trust there OC...Unless it's Manning or Brady of course......I do not want a QB who is bitter that his friend got fired....I do not want a QB who thinks he is in the same league as Manning and Brady and refuses to study his craft.....I do not want a QB who doesn't understand why a running play didn't work ...He may not be right everytime ,but I do expect him to have enough Love for the game that he at least has an ideal why that play broke down in that instance....I do not want a QB who will take sacks or throw picks in the Redzone trying to extend a play....I do not want a QB who holds the ball all day deep in our end of the field or late in games near scoring position....

I could keep going ,but it seems that Ben could match a lot of the above.....I still believe most of those things above were caused by his OC.....So my main concern is will he buy into the new OC 100%??Will he listen to what the Owner wants??Is he willing to become a true student of the game?,or is he a I play great because I have great Talent and that's enough type of guy...

If I have doubts about those then yes I would take a lesser talent at QB and use Ben to get ammo to build the rest of the Team....So it's not just DD over Ben it's the whole thing ......So I am in my right mind and I would take a Team QB with less talent with a stronger Team around him than a skilled QB playing at half his potential....

As stated I hope Ben is willing ,but if not let's not try and force him to be willing....You can't Coach Desire and it's not Ben's winning Desire that is in Question....It is his Desire to do what's best for the Team.....He can't let that Ego get in the way,,as stated we will see which way he intends to go in the next few weeks...

 

I agree with you that a lot of the issues you pointed out were likely caused by the OC. The next year or two I think will tell a lot about this whole situation. I will say that his taking sacks and throwing pics is the fickle nature of his style of play that got us to 1 Super Bowl, and won us a 2nd one. I think if the new OC can teach him to back away from the school yard ball a little bit it will help his game a lot. I don't want to see that style snuffed out completely, just mitigated or exploited (ie designed roll out's).

 

I agree I don't want it snuffed out either ,just become a true Student of the game....Know the situation ,know when it is time to extend a play and against which looks have the best chance of success...Learn the pre snap game become a field general,,this is why Ben and his WR'S are not on the same page ,because Ben is not exactly sure what he is seeing....Again I think is fixable if he is willing.....

Ben is capable of being the Best QB in the entire NFL or Ben is capable of letting his style end his career in the next few seasons.....So as stated if he refuses or seems unwilling to adapt his game now is the time to put the Team 1st. not 2 years from now ........I have a feeling that Art feels the same way....The 1 comment that bothers me the most is 'I will tell Mr. Rooney the way I see this Offense heading' well if he does it better be the same way that Art wants it to go or that could be just enough to consider maybe Ben is not Coachable......I am not saying that's the case ,but it could get him on the block.....

If he wants to stay off the block then stay away from the Cameras and Mics and don't pretend not to know why BA is gone or what Rooney wants from the O......He has told BA and Ben the past 2 off seasons so it is a little Arrogant of Ben IMO to state I will go talk with him and then add in that and tell him stuff,,,,he already knows what is expected and he better be careful.....

 

Um, no, it wasn't. Why could no one else on the roster do what Ben did then with that awesome can't be beat system?[/quote:2gghpx4r]

Because T.E anyone else in the system such as Maddox had the entire playbook and more choices, more ways to screw it up. In Ben's first year they limited what he had to be responsible for. He had two options on passing and if it wasn't there he could take off running which surprised most teams. You are throwing that 15-1 stat out like Ben came in a ran the greatest show on turf passing for over 400 yards a game and four TD's when that wasn't the case. Cowher's system has always been about keeping it close and either winning those close battles or strangling the life out of a team when they had the lead. If they got behind they didn't have a QB that was capable of overcoming a double digit deficit. Ben would give them that eventually but in his rookie year it was the perfect system for him since they ran the ball alot, played tough defense and used those 15-20 plays Ben was comfortable with to win games. Go back two years to when both Ward and Burress had 1000 yard seasons because teams were stacking the box against the run and then the following year abandoning the system to go to an air attack which failed miserably and you can see why the system worked. Now eventually they got away from that system and catered more towards Ben and what he can do but that rookie year the system helped to create the record

 

Because T.E anyone else in the system such as Maddox had the entire playbook and more choices, more ways to screw it up. In Ben's first year they limited what he had to be responsible for. He had two options on passing and if it wasn't there he could take off running which surprised most teams. You are throwing that 15-1 stat out like Ben came in a ran the greatest show on turf passing for over 400 yards a game and four TD's when that wasn't the case. Cowher's system has always been about keeping it close and either winning those close battles or strangling the life out of a team when they had the lead. If they got behind they didn't have a QB that was capable of overcoming a double digit deficit. Ben would give them that eventually but in his rookie year it was the perfect system for him since they ran the ball alot, played tough defense and used those 15-20 plays Ben was comfortable with to win games. Go back two years to when both Ward and Burress had 1000 yard seasons because teams were stacking the box against the run and then the following year abandoning the system to go to an air attack which failed miserably and you can see why the system worked. Now eventually they got away from that system and catered more towards Ben and what he can do but that rookie year the system helped to create the record[/quote:3uffqkyo]

Spot on, again. Ben was a game manager as a rookie. Even in SB40, though possibly a bit beyond that he was still being QB coached, on the field, by a WR (Hines Ward). It took opposing defenses a while to catch on to what the Steelers were doing with Ben, at first. That element of surprise, solid ground game, and dominant Steelers defense helped him.

Nowadays, teams know what Ben is trying to do, and they plan for it... and it's turnover city. Then the defense is "bend-not-break" and not creating turnovers like they used to. The O-Line can't run block so our run game is not respected. Opposing defenses don't add men to the box. The team abandons the run in games when the run is successful because they want an air attack (including Ben). Now it's all on Ben's arm... and look where the team is.

Point to the defense all you like... But I think it's a damned shame that Ben can't step up and score more for a struggling defense that, in the past, has saved his arse more times than I care to count. And the defense frequently gave Ben the ball back w/out letting the opposing defense score even if they didn't get a turnover. An elite QB doesn't need his defense to get turnovers. All he needs is for the defense to stop the other team's offense and get him the ball back... And all that would have taken was for Ben to score TDs on about 50% of his missed Red Zone opportunites. But it's understandable... Ben sucks in the Red Zone in 2011.

 

Because T.E anyone else in the system such as Maddox had the entire playbook and more choices, more ways to screw it up. In Ben's first year they limited what he had to be responsible for. He had two options on passing and if it wasn't there he could take off running which surprised most teams. You are throwing that 15-1 stat out like Ben came in a ran the greatest show on turf passing for over 400 yards a game and four TD's when that wasn't the case. Cowher's system has always been about keeping it close and either winning those close battles or strangling the life out of a team when they had the lead. If they got behind they didn't have a QB that was capable of overcoming a double digit deficit. Ben would give them that eventually but in his rookie year it was the perfect system for him since they ran the ball alot, played tough defense and used those 15-20 plays Ben was comfortable with to win games. Go back two years to when both Ward and Burress had 1000 yard seasons because teams were stacking the box against the run and then the following year abandoning the system to go to an air attack which failed miserably and you can see why the system worked. Now eventually they got away from that system and catered more towards Ben and what he can do but that rookie year the system helped to create the record[/quote:1gbs6j32]

Ok, so then why didn't the coaches simplify it for the other QB's before Ben? Who cares if they were more developed then Ben, If you could win that many games just by simplifying it you'd think everyone would do that. Come on guys, give credit when it's due, you don't get to 15-1 by a system alone and yes Thorn, I'll keep throwing that stat around because I don't recall many rookie QB's ever doing that. I don't recall his stats but I do remember him playing damn good.[/quote:1gbs6j32]

Ben did do a great job. I am not disputing that. Ben is a good QB. I am sure all Steelers fans think so. I think what I, and others, are saying is that Ben is not progressing to elite status and his current play is proof of that. He is basically still playing at the SB40/SB43 level. He requires a good system around him to be successful. Clearly, most other QBs could not do what Ben has done, in his position. That is evident. Ben is the toughest QB I've ever seen. But what the Steelers need, right now, if they are to take full advantage of all offensive weapons, is an elite QB. And if Ben is not prepared to take his game to that level, then I am in agreement with finding/grooming a QB who is.

Can Ben do it? Yes. The 2011 game vs. Patriots proved that. But, then, Ben doesn't consistently play, at that high level. That is the issue that many, here, are addressing.

 

Because T.E anyone else in the system such as Maddox had the entire playbook and more choices, more ways to screw it up. In Ben's first year they limited what he had to be responsible for. He had two options on passing and if it wasn't there he could take off running which surprised most teams. You are throwing that 15-1 stat out like Ben came in a ran the greatest show on turf passing for over 400 yards a game and four TD's when that wasn't the case. Cowher's system has always been about keeping it close and either winning those close battles or strangling the life out of a team when they had the lead. If they got behind they didn't have a QB that was capable of overcoming a double digit deficit. Ben would give them that eventually but in his rookie year it was the perfect system for him since they ran the ball alot, played tough defense and used those 15-20 plays Ben was comfortable with to win games. Go back two years to when both Ward and Burress had 1000 yard seasons because teams were stacking the box against the run and then the following year abandoning the system to go to an air attack which failed miserably and you can see why the system worked. Now eventually they got away from that system and catered more towards Ben and what he can do but that rookie year the system helped to create the record[/quote:1hgs3nre]

Ok, so then why didn't the coaches simplify it for the other QB's before Ben? Who cares if they were more developed then Ben, If you could win that many games just by simplifying it you'd think everyone would do that. Come on guys, give credit when it's due, you don't get to 15-1 by a system alone and yes Thorn, I'll keep throwing that stat around because I don't recall many rookie QB's ever doing that. I don't recall his stats but I do remember him playing damn good.[/quote:1hgs3nre]

He was a pure game manager with 1 or 2 reads if nothing then run....All the stats support that...He was Coached to protect the ball...In 04 he had 2 Fumbles on 58 rushing attempts....In 2011 he had 8 Fumbles on 36 attempts...

In 04 he had 11 picks on 295 attempts....In 2011 he had 14 Ints on 513 attempts.....So these stats prove and show he was a game manager.....I could not find the stats for the type of sets ,but on the 4 taped games I watched from 04, I counted no empty sets and only a few 1 RB sets most of the snaps came from 2 RB sets using PA thus he was a game manager and we won more games we need to return to those roots so to speak with him.....

That was the problem with Maddox they thought he was better than he was and let him do to much ......It seems BA was on that same road with Ben....

So maybe it is time to go back to a manage the game style a bit more whether it be with Ben,DD,Byron,Troy, Luck ,or Manning....We have the D and running game to support a 04 type effort....

 

T.E. here is a link for the 2004 team stats

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2004.htm

and this is one for Ben's

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

AS Rukus is saying I am not trying to diminish what he accomplished however he did benefit from playing with in the system. Multiple 100+ yard rushing games, defense having multiple turnover games, just then one 300 yard passing game. Some low scoring games and some very close games. It was a heck of a start to Ben's career no doubting that.

 

Its the off season so
Ben is running around with all kinds of loose women
Ben's going to be cut and Dixon will be the QB
Mendy's leg just fell off
The ravens just signed Redman to a 10 year deal
Harrison and Woodly just signed with the colts cause they miss BA
Rooney's called Tomlin in and told him run or get fired
Mike Wallace broke his foot and AB is laughing about it
We'll have a 4 and 12 record cause of all the above.
That should cover it
Com'on man! Fans need an off season too

 

Nice!

 

I've been reading the words Game Manager in 2004. ?????
Anyone remember the Dallas game when Ben lit their butts up off his arm?