Speaking of who built what team.....

...I know a lot get into debate over Tomlin winning with Cowher's teams. We've discussed that until the dead horse was beat into hamburger meat.

However, guess who else experienced a lot of success with another regime's players? Cowher did.

Not even Chuck Noll could replicate the insane shrewd drafting of the Noll era 70's teams. We may never see another run on superior drafting as that team in that era (although the 1980's 9ers had some pretty incredible drafts, as did the Jimmy Johnson 90's Dallas teams). But, many of us just assume Noll didn't do all that great of drafting since his 70's heydays, but that is only because when you juxtapose the decades, the one with four Lombardi trophies is going to trump ANY group. but guess what? Cowher actually inherited quite a lot of talent. Sure, by the time he actually WON a ring, all of Noll's players were gone. BUT, don't forget, Cowher had tons of success in the 90's, just no rings. But the Steelers were a top team almost every season in the 90's; so who composed those teams and where did they come from? As it turns out, Noll did some really nice work his last 5 years that Cowher inherited and immediately turned into winners. Consider these Noll players.

Gerald Williams
Brent Jones - Not there when Cowher took over
Bubby Brister (no laughing)
Merril Hoge - pro bowl (PB)
Greg Lloyd - PB
Hardy Nickerson - PB
Tim Johnson - solid starter (SS)
Rod Woodson - PB, HOF
Thomas Everette - PB
John Jackson - PB
Dirt Dawson - PB, HOF
Warren Williams
Carlton Haselrig - PB
DJ Johnson - SS
Carnell Lake - PB
Jerrol Williams
Eric Green - PB
O'Donnell - PB
Barry Foster - PB
Justin Strzelczyk - PB
Ernie Mills - SS
Jeff Graham - SS
Leroy Thompson
Adrian Cooper

That 87 draft produced 7 quality starters and some pro bowlers. Yes, by our 5th Super Bowl, those were not Noll players. But just look at the above list and don't tell me Chuck didn't do some very nice work in finding some real quality talent that Cowher used to immediately field play off teams. And this group did make it to the 1995 Super Bowl and most of those players came from the Noll era.

 

It is difficult to fill the shoes of a legend. Few have done it. I don't believe George Seifert gets the credit he deserves, and he won two superbowls. The Cowboys and Steelers are the only teams to have three consecutive coaches win a Superbowl. The Steelers are still active on that list and it may be quite some time until the 4th coach is on the sidelines.

Few coaches come in and get rid of all of the players that were there. Most of these players, when they are drafted have promise. For some of these players, it may have been the team, the opportunity, or the coaches, that had them elevate their play to be at the pro-bowl level. Take O'Donnell. (Side note, I realize there is a lot of hate on here for him, but what if he stuck around? Could he have let the 96 or 97 team back to the Superbowl?)

Interestingly, when many of these Noll era drafted players left, the team went into a funk. Same thing happened with Cowher's players on Tomlin's team. What Noll did not have in the late 80's or Cowher have in the 90's was a true franchise QB.

 

Man this whole debate has been regurgitated 1000 times. Try doing a search and You'll see what I'm talking about.

 

A lot of the guys Cowher inherited from Noll weren't around for very long. By the '95 Super Bowl there were ~ 10 Noll players left on the roster ... and Woodson missed almost the entire season.

 

I think that what people might not realize is that by saying "Cowher won with Noll's players" they are actually inadvertently saying that Noll must not have been as good of a coach. I mean if COWHER took them to the Super Bowl and NOLL couldn't.... LOL. Pandora's Box.

 

I don't either. I'm just saying that if people always want to make the case that Tomlin won with Cowher's players than they have to make the case that Cowher won with Noll's and if Cowher could win with them and Noll couldn't it is almost like they are inadvertently making the case to say that Cowher was better than Noll and that Tomlin is better than Cowher. When in reality they are trying to say that Noll is better than Cowher and Cowher is better than Tomlin. It's all very Twilight Zoney. LOL.

 

While this has also been discussed at length, there is a point to note about how often teams get a 'true franchise QB'. For me, O'Donnell was almost the perfect QB for Cowher's system, imo. He wasn't a Marino or Montana, but for what Bill did with the team, he had all the fitting attributes.

Noll also had his ups and downs when he did have a franchise QB in Bradshaw, who, as we know, wasn't always cemented into his spot on the depth chart.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's an important piece of the puzzle, but not quite as simple as saying "Tomlin has Ben, therefore should be doing better."

Though you may not have been actually saying that, of course.

 

Most of those debate Tomlin getting good players from Cowher; I have seen very few point out that Noll actually added tons of good talent that Noll put together in the later 80's. Cowher inherited a ton of talent himself. Noll was the one who took over a team with virtually no talent and built them up from the ground up.

As an aside, if all you are going to do is whine after every post I make, come up with a new game plan; you are boring everyone.

 

I am definitely not saying BC must be a better coach than Noll, and if pressed, I hold Noll heads and shoulders above BC as a head coach. Noll was winding down as a coach, and when is in such a state, they are often not as good as they were in their 40's or whatever. BC came in, young, and full of piss and vinegar, and took a team that had lots of talent and moved them down a winning path. MOST of BC's players were from Noll on the '95 SB run. Those significant players added on BC's watch on that SB team included: Searcy, Kirkland, Steed, Perry, Chad Brown, Andre Hastings, Willie Williams, Charles Johnson, Buckner, Gildon, Bam Morris, Bruener, Lee Flowers and Kordell. That's a good deal of talent as well, but, to be honest, I don't think BC had all that much power in the draft room until '95, and those drafts after that point really fell off a cliff.

1996 was a particularly putrid draft.

1. Jamain Stephens - simply one of the worst 1st round picks in the modern era history of the Steelers.
2. Steve Conley - terrible.
3. Jon Whitman - decent
4. Earl Holmes - good value
5. Jahine Arnold - worthless
6. Rayborn - decent
7. Roye - solid
8. Fischer - no one
9. Emmons - so so

1997 was just as bad. When BC had more say in the drafts, they got much worse.

 

And the great Don Shula had the great Dan Marino and only made it to ONE SB, and won zero.

 

Yes, that is true. But I believe I also recall when BC took the team to the SB that he gained some power at that point too. Regardless, the few drafts after '95 were terrible, just bad. And the drafts leading up to that point were very, very solid.

 

Yeah but he won 2 before that.

 

Which further demonstrates my intended point. My point was even great coaches don't always win rings with franchise QBs.

 

IDK, but something seemed to change. Noll's last 5 drafts and Cowher's 1st 4 were pretty amazing. Much more impressive than our last 5 I would say.