So, your thoughts on the replacement refs so far

The problem Rusk is they aren't supposed to be here. And while the real refs blow calls too I've never seen one so bad as yesterdays) they at least know the rules. Also, there is an issue of integrity, I don't believe for one second that these guys are above making a bogus call in favor of a bet or their fantasy league. Especially when one ref was canned for making a reference to it during a game. If one said it, you know others are thinking it. Actually, I think he was canned for tailgating with the fans but it was the same guy.[/quote:2kkcqytr]

Very good points. That guy was a Saints fan, right?

I agree with you regarding the replacement refs appearing to be less sound in terms of integrity. There has been much talk of them being intimidated, on the field, by fans, players and coaches.

Last night, I believe I heard Steve Young state these refs are from Division III college level. They couldn't get some of the D1 college refs??? NFL and D1 college don't usually play at the same time, do they?

 

Yes...and the IMMACULATE RECEPTION happened to.

Detroit had guys trailing the play....which is the right thing to do because usually the ball is tipped backwards...but every DB in football from pop warner to high school, to College, to Arena to NFL or Canada.....you are taught to just bat the HAIL MARY DOWN....because it works 99% of the time.

You put the ball in the turf....you don't want to hit it that way..then you punch it out of bounds.....you do not try to catch it...because of exactly what happened....Tate got both hands on the ball as they fell. I really don't have a problem with the call. Yes Jennings had it first....but its not about who has it first...its about where it ends up...and the play ended with both guys fighting for the ball on the ground.....Simultaneous Possession....it goes to the offense.

HACK

 

For those that haven't read the whole thread, Rutan74 had a couple really good posts on page 3.

I think that the refs are doing about as well as the regular refs were. Yes some of the games are taking longer to finish, longer to review plays, but when the get the calls right that's all that matters. Remember even just last year watching so many games so many replays and still never 100% sure if they were going to rule it a catch or not a catch.

One thing that everyone seems to forget is that our view from TV or the stands is much much different from the first hand view on the field. Players block views, each ref has a different responsibility. Until they outfit every ref with a head cam and "instant" instant replay, we will have to be subject to judgement from the stripes on the field.

 

The refs are doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances. It's understandable that those guys don't know every rule from a rule book that contains hundreds of pages. Plus, many of the rules are open to interpretation. Regardless of who refs games, there is a history of bad and questionable calls through the history of the NFL. There is a good chance that the regular refs could had made the same call on the field.

 

The replacements refs are indecive, I'll grant you that. But the REVIEW OFFICALS ARE THE SAME ONES AS LAST YEAR. If someone blew the call last night, it wasn't the replacement refs.

I would ask that everyone page back through last years posts and show me all the praise for the accuracy and insight of the regular refs in 2011. All I remember was that those guys sucked. These guys suck too. Do they suck more? Maybe. But I think a difference is the regular refs would make a bad call, would strongly stick too their guns and SELL their call.

The difference now is that many teams, more than in Week 1 are in the face of the new refs trying to intimidate them. They are probably succeeding. But I ask you, when the Regular Refs come back, why will this change?

 

They suck, for no other reason than the games take longer to play. Which is why I was watching the stinking Saints v Cheifs and Jets v Dolphins instead of the 1st quarter of the Steelers game.

But I can't stand Rogers, so I'm glad GB lost.

 

Thank you for those kind comments. As far as I know, I am the only sports official that participates in here and although I do not do football, I have worn the stripes for 25 years and I do know a little about the mentality of officials in general.

Overall, they are doing about as well as one can expect given the circumstances. This is not about integrity or player safety either. It is about a better contract for the officials, period. Can you say MONEY? Anyone that thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

rutan

 

Unfortunately, your opinion does not count or matter. It is just that, an opinion. Until the owners get hurt in the pocket, nothing will change and right now, instead of hurting them, it is causing many more to tune in just to see the car wrecks. You know, just like NASCAR. It is a no win situation for these replacements. The fans and the media, who do not understand officiating in the least are the loudest voices and are stiring up the masses like a lynch mob.

FWIW, since I am an official, they do not suck IMO. You see, I have an opinion of my own, and my opinion comes from actually wearing the stripes for over 25 years. So tell me how many games you have worked as a game official? I will also be the first to say that they have missed a bunch of calls. So what. As I said before, do some research and find where the league sent letters to the Steelers week after week about blown calls. It happens way more than you think or are told.

Remember, this is not the fault of the replacements. What did you expect anyway? If these guys were NFL calibur then they would be working in the NFL. They are not NFL calibur so this is what you get.

Now instead of crying about he officiating like an uninformed parent that sits in the stands and complains when little Johnny does not get a call, ask yourself why don't the real refs agree to come back to work and then work out the contract at season end? Integrity? Where is their integrity for the game? If it is such an issue, then they should say to hell with the contract for now and get back to work. Instead, they sit around and are just waiting for their big payday.

All to often we chide players for holding out for the millions, yet here we have PART TIME workers that demand (more) insurance, a (better) retirement plan, and refuse to allow tougher grading on game performance to weed out the underperforming. Now, really, integrity? It goes both ways. How many part time jobs do you know of that have these benifits and perks? It is pure union extortion.

It is also interesting to listen to the ex-NFL refs rail against the bad calls yet they do not lend a hand in the matter. Many of these seasoned ex-NFL guys could lend a hand and work some of these games. At least put one on each crew to help, but you haven't seen any of them offer their services have you? None of these guys wants to put a wet blanket on the union that they once were or still are part of. Now, who are the sucky refs?

Look, I think they have every right to demand more money. The NFL also has the right to say, no, you are paid enough in our opinion.

rutan

 

I agree with you about Union Extortion. Now if the league decides that it can get away with staying with the replacements the game and its integrity will suffer and sooner rather than later the revenue will drop.

Countless fans may still follow on tv, the season ticket holders will still go but anybody who would otherwise just go to a game or two will say forget it. I know I'm at that point right now and there are alot of us.

They start seeing half empty stadiums from midsize markets and it will be a big Black eye to Gooddells garbage Pop Warner football league.

 

I can say this about part time workers. I work at UPS and have for 11 and a half years. In Knoxville Tn where I live our hub is the WORST in the country for going full time. I have other part time people ahead of me and they have over 16 years! In 1997 the UPS struck because they wouldn't give full time free benefits to the part time workers. Now we do get the benefits. It's actually the reason a LOT of people work there. But MOST of the time I think the Union does things to benefit the TOP guys and not the bottom. The reason UPS gave us the benefits ultimately was because the union relinquished Christmas bonuses. It was give and take. If the refs are dead set on what they want they will be in this deadlock for a LONG time. If the league refuses to compromise it will also be deadlocked for a LONG time. Ultimately someone is gonna have to blink and it sucks for us as fans to sit and watch this staring contest. But that being said I think the refs should be compensated justly. Maybe instead of just being part time the league should just make them full time and maybe that would solve the whole thing.

 

What I didn't realize is that the refs already make $150,000 a year! Man that's pretty sweet for 20 weekends a year! I think they are trying to get up to $161,000 a year and have a 401k plan. Is that basically their demands?

 

I heard on one of the radio shows that the NFL came out saying that the refs made the right call. They just keep digging that loss of credibility hole deeper and deeper. Sad sorry day for the NFL.

 

And from the NFLs perspective look at how many state budgets are stressed because of sweet heart pension deals that they gave into years ago.

There's nothing wrong with shifting the responsibility of retirement funding to the employee. It's been going on for decades now.

 

Never said it was. Just showing where the hold up is. Both sides have valid motives.[/quote:1lo6vcsq]

Well said, Ray - it's an obvious point, but one that gets a little lost sometimes. And I'm wary of casting a judgement on who is right and who is wrong because it's effectively a trade dispute that I have little knowledge of the inner workings/politics/effects of. That's not to say, "don't know, don't care", cos that kind of attitude annoys me. It's more that I like to watch football, and that's about the limit of my expertise regarding the officiating.

For what it's worth, I found the refs calls the last two seasons frustrating - I put it down to an excess of complex rules. The replacement refs are working with the same materials, so it doesn't surprise me if I find their calls frustrating as well. I'm not sure the GB game wouldn't have happened with the regular officials.

 

Well said, Ray - it's an obvious point, but one that gets a little lost sometimes. And I'm wary of casting a judgement on who is right and who is wrong because it's effectively a trade dispute that I have little knowledge of the inner workings/politics/effects of. That's not to say, "don't know, don't care", cos that kind of attitude annoys me. It's more that I like to watch football, and that's about the limit of my expertise regarding the officiating.

For what it's worth, I found the refs calls the last two seasons frustrating - I put it down to an excess of complex rules. The replacement refs are working with the same materials, so it doesn't surprise me if I find their calls frustrating as well. I'm not sure the GB game wouldn't have happened with the regular officials.[/quote:41oavy2q]

 

Man, after having seen how bad the replacement refs were, it's very noticeable how much confidence and control the real refs have here in the Browns/Ravens game, especially the HL.

 

Definitely a much better flow to the game,,it may actually be over on time,,or even early...The browns are hanging around too raying:

 

Let me ask you this Bobby......If you bargained your retirement fund into a pension fund years ago..(lets say 30) would you feel secure transfering it to a 401 k???????

Im going through this now and I do not want my pension transfered into a 401k!!!!!

 

Ah yeah there is.....A employee gives 35 or more years of his or her life to a company. When they retire the company just says"Thanks good luck. Hope the market is good to you."

The top 10 in this company who may have been there 15 years combined are collecting millions.....The people who have built this company are relying on the stock market to pay their bills after retierment.....NOT RIGHT!!!!!!