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Sleeper pick at edge rusher

Discussion in 'The Bill Nunn Draft Room' started by steelersrule6, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Derek Rivers-Youngstown State 6'4 250 with 38 career sacks, a guy to consider in the mid rounds. He had a good showing in the Senior Bowl also.
     
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  2. turtle

    turtle

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    He would be a nice target in round 4-5.
     
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  3. steelersrock151

    steelersrock151 Well-Known Member

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    Not a college football follower. I follow the Shrine Game and Senior Bowl, and do a ton of reading up to the draft. And I appreciate when you guys find these sleeper picks with names I've never heard of. I'll follow him and the other guys discussed here in the combine and all the pre-draft stuff, and it's always great to actually know who a guy is when we make our selection.
    Thanks.
     
  4. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Right here in our backyard. OL couldn't block him. I am
    not sure I have ever seen worse ol in the little bit of senior bowl I watched.
     
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  5. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    I was looking at him very close throughout the season and I liked what I saw.


    High effort and motor with some good weapons in his arsenal. May not be as athletic as I would like but if his three is under or within 6.90 and short shuttle under or within 4.3 then I would take a look at him in round 4.
     
  6. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I posted in the Senior Bowl thread I wasn't sure if these rushers were that good or if the oline was that bad.
     
  7. turtle

    turtle

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    Will it take a sleeper pick at OLB? I'm just tossing ideas out there right now for discussion....

    Let's leave FA out of the equation for now, but assume (as some burgh beat writers have mentioned) that Jarvis Jones will not be offered a contract.

    So we have Dupree, JH92(good probability re-signed) and Chickillo. Moats is up in the air and back up ceiling only anyway.

    Now lets look at the first round prospects.

    Myles Garrett - 1st pick off board imo
    Solomon Thomas - in the top 15 easy
    Derrek Barnett - possible, I could see Baltimore, Washington, or Tampa taking him
    Takk McKinley - possible, but I can see Dallas running to the podium

    Taco Charlton - possible, but more DE imo, combine weight may clarify
    DeMarcus Walker - possible but more DE imo, combine weight may clarify

    Charles Harris - probably available
    Dawuane Smoot - probably available
    TJ Watt - probably available, but not a strong enough candidate to overcome someone else at another position imo, pass
    Carl Lawson - probably available but horrible injury history, I would pass
    Tim Williams - probably available but several failed drug tests, pass
    Haason Reddick - probably available and a lot of buzz lately but don't see the 1st round grade, pass

    A strong possibility we have to choose from Harris, Smoot and Barnett if they want OLB in round 1. Barnett I can see either being available or not. But I am willing to bet Garrett and Thomas are gone for sure and McKinley very, very likely.

    A FA OLB would open up a ton of possibilities in this draft.

    Anyone see some prospects differently? thoughts/ideas?
     
  8. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    hendrickson
    kpassagnon
    ebukam
    dimmick
    english
    carraway
    these are guys we could draft late and i think we could find a gem or two. may need a little work but they have some tools to work with. maybe even making into specialty pass rush guys, which we don't employ much of yet. they have been pretty productive.

    watt and fields are still two guys i'm high on so far. :cool:
     
  9. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    @turtle I really liked what I saw out of River from Youngstown St. in the Senior Bowl. I saw a mock which had us taking him in the 3rd, I think that is a perfect spot. We get our edge rusher while still being able to address our other needs. 6-4 250 love his size and quickness and he showed he can play vs bigger prospects, a good combine may push him up to the 2nd which may be to high but I like what I saw.

    I have said this before but I did not like what I saw from McKinley as far as an outside edge rusher. The more I read on him the more I see him being a good pair with Shazier on the inside. I am not sure I want to go there in the 1st round , Harris and Smoot are 2 guys if we are going OLB in the 1st are guys I would like to watch more. I also could see Reddick being a option for us, what is with Temple LB's feels like there is one guy that stands out every year. I think Williams and Phillips took themselves off our board with the off field stuff and I am not sure if Watt makes it into the 1st round.

    With that said that S from Uconn looks like a nice fit for us and a CB maybe Tabor falls? I also like King(S/CB) but I want to watch him some more, and I know it has been talked about in another thread but I wouldn't mind McCaffery in the 1st as well.

    I look at this NFL as a pass happy league and you better have the talent in the backfield to be able to switch between man/zone to confuse the QB. If we are going to try to play that way we need to get better talent back there to go with Burns and Davis. Getting a pass rusher when your coaching staff feels the need to cover more vs good QB's is not a 1st round priority to me. Let's load up on some play makers in the back end and get a guy like Rivers in the 3rd who looks to be a very good player and that will help both areas. JMO.
     
  10. turtle

    turtle

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    Yes, Rivers looked good. I would take him in the third. I'm just not thrilled with any OLBs that will be there in the first round tbh. That was the jist of my post above. If we went FA to fill that need, man that first round pick would open up so many options. The question is....will the FO make the move instead of relying on a draft pick to maybe or maybe not pan out. Would love to have Melvin Ingram here but think Nick Perry is more affordable and won't detract too much from the Bell/Brown money.

    I like McKinley just don't think he's there. If Dallas passes on him, Jerry Jones should check into an asylum.

    I would take Cam Sutton over Desmond King. Better athlete imo. Senior Bowl game and practices really affirmed that from what I saw.

    Reddick would be an ILB for us i think. They have a great culture there from what everyone says and I think that's apparent in their players. He killed it in one on ones but got lost in team, but he is transitioning from the edge. Great potential though, I wouldn't be against spending a 2nd round pick on him. 1st is to high for me right now. Houston's Bowser is also a candidate at ILB. I always liked Houston's Taylor but Bowser had an impressive week. And that's a position we need to draft for this year imo. Love VW98 and Dirty Red but they have their limitations.
     
  11. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    I'd take Tim Williams in a heartbeat

    HACK
     
  12. turtle

    turtle

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    weed problems don't concern you?? another Randy Gregory
     
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  13. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I was pretty much agreeing with you. like I said I want to see more on Harris and Smoot but I don't see a guy I would really like in the 1st. The guy I like but haven't watched much of just read a ton on is Cunningham but I am sure he will be long gone, He is my Decastro of this draft. You like McKinley, what am I missing? I watched 2 games and he not once pressured the QB without being unblocked. When he got pressure he came unblocked, watched the Stanford game when he locked up with the OT he never get push. To me that is a red flag, jmo.

    I feel we could find a OLB in rounds 3 and beyond who could turn into a starter. Guys like Rivers, Dimick, Wise, Carraway, Kpassagon, Willis, Davis and Henderickson. I am feeling more and more like CB and S are our focus in the early rounds and of course so much can change as the draft unfolds. Players drop and players move up and that could put a guy right in out lap we weren't expecting.
     
  14. turtle

    turtle

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    Like the upside on McKinley, my draft evals have changed these past few years. College success is sometimes not the tell all, be all. Look at Landon Collins who I liked initialy but didn't think he had the coverage skills. Guys improve in the NFL through coaching, motivation. So tough to predict. But I need to watch more on McKinley as well.

    Cunningham would be a huge get. See him going to NY Giants unfortunately but if he slips...that would be awesome.

    I would steer clear of Carraway and Davis (Chattanooga?) imo. Kpassagnon just doesn't strike me either. Athletic, body type phenom yes but so tall. Hard to overcome imo. See Margus Hunt et al
     
  15. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I too don't like to put stock into college stats as they are sometimes misleading. I like to watch game films and judge for myself and that is why I am not as impressed as a few here on McKinley. When I watch him(the 2 games I saw) I see a guy who don't get the push, drive or don't have a move vs the olineman. I also like to watch vs teams that have pro type players, that #75 in the Stanford game totally ate him up... JMO! Now when you talk about the pro level coaching I agree so much can change at the next level. However with more and more pro coaches going back down I think these prospects are becoming more polished.

    I would love Cunningham and I agree I am sure he will be gone but he is my guy right now if you asked who I would want. I thought Davis and Kpassagnon both had good senior bowls so I am gonna watch more on them but I understand you concern on the size point.
     
  16. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Everybody is looking for the next great pass rusher but usually those guys are found at the top of the draft and are long gone before we pick. Although they say the draft is deep in OLBs I don't see it as first round deep. There are plenty of guys but their limitations I feel exclude them from first round consideration. I'm just feel we can't make a JJ mistake again. Unless the player is elite and if they are ,they are gone in the top 10 ,we would be reaching to fill a need at the OLB position.
    Until we shore up the back end of our D I don't care who they draft he will rarely get home when the QB is given such a easy option to get rid of the ball. My hope is that a CB or safety will fall into our laps. I know you can use the same philosophy against me when it comes to DBs but imo I see better value at the DB position in the draft....Now the 2nd and 3rd round is where I can see us taking a OLB and hopefully our coaching can bring him up to speed. Like some others have mentioned a FA OLB would be ideal for the immediate future.....
    Even though some of our needs on D are glaring I am hoping we can get improvement from Dupree Hargrave and Chickillo and from the back end with Burns ,Davis and God willing Golson.
    I'm also a firm believer that our O could use some help to reach its full potential. I know the hopeful return of The Alien would make a huge difference and I see our young WRs making strides next season. The TEs are ok at best and I don't really see Green as a viable option until proven otherwise. A more consistent and potent offense will in turn make our D better. That's why I'm on record beating the drum for a miracle that OJ Howard falls to us( I know not happening). I also wouldn't be opposed at all to Mccaffrey being the pick he is so versatile and immediately a major upgrade in KO and gets AB off PRs......he and Bell compliment each other so well and would be a DCs nightmare. If a stud isn't there on D then a TE(Njoku) or Mccaffrey I would be onboard with....
     
  17. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    kpassagnon has a non stop motor from what i can see. for as tall as he is he seems strong and gets off of blocks be it double teams or singled up. he stays after the play too. i do like what i see from that kid. long and strong and can keep blockers at bay.

    another guy not mentioned much is walker jr. from NW. he's got some game too.

    dimmick just produces. go figure. LOL

    i do expect chickillo to be better as he goes and learns. :cool:
     
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  18. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Charlton and Walker might could be Lamarr Woodley types, DEs in college transition to OLB in the NFL. If they lost 10 lbs or so they could probably play OLB.
     
  19. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    He had a gun charge with a marijuana possession before last season, pass on him.
     
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  20. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of what your feeling, however good pass rushers can be found past the 10th pick. I really am a believer in the system the player goes to as well. Let's talk about this years top 5 sack leaders. Beasley & Millet 1st rounders, Alexander Not Drafted(FA), Golden 2nd round & Hunter 3rd round. You don't need to have a top 10 pick, yes it helps but getting a guy that fits the system will work. If at 30 we have a CB-S-OLB all with the same grades or close enough to I would want a CB or S, jmo.

    You hit a great point about our offense, we struggle way to much on this side of the ball for being "known" as an offensive team. We need consistency and if that means adding another weapon or two I am fine with that. We won Super Bowls with a D that could carry this team, now I feel we have an offense that could/should be able to do the same thing......let's start proving it. I am not sure if it is the injuries/suspensions, the lack of depth or the head butting between Ben and Haley, but adding a Howard, McCaffery and/or a top WR can only help make this machine unstoppable.

    As for Green, he is a difference maker when in there. I wasn't a fan of the signing but when he plays we are different offense. I like James a ton, to me he is a poor mans Heath with the chance to get close to the level Heath was at. The problem is he is not a threat, he is a good #2 guy but not a offense threat like Green. We have to hope Green plays and that would be a nice 1-2 punch. I have not problem adding another guy to this mix if like Howard fell to us, but I see the Giants being all over Howard. For the record I love McCaffery in this offense but I don't think if he is there we take him.
     
  21. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I am concerned about his height but not enough to make me not want to take a chance on him. He showed he can play vs higher competition and his high motor is only a plus. Yeah his height is a concern but it could also be helpful if he get around that corner he could swat down screen that the NFL loves to do now. Chandler Jones is 6-5 and he has had success. As for Walker I haven't got to see to much on him yet and I love Dimick.
     
  22. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    We're definitely on the same page....I can see Howard to the Giants as well but I think they may go for a LB of some kind, but either way someone is sure to grab him before us....I do see Mccaffrey being available though but I highly doubt we would pick him anyway. If he's sitting there though I'm gonna be hoping for him...
     
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  23. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    as a DE in pass rush situations and as depth right now he'd be a good pickup. i don't think he will become an OLB in our defense but a lot to work with. he's from PA. too.

    dylan donahue and sampson ebukam look like a couple of guys that have some upside as OLB too. nice quickness and get after it.

    i'm still in the mind of watt. from the tape i see he gets it but still has plenty of upside that he can gain. he uses his hands well, plays the run well, can get in coverage when needed, seems smart and plays to his coaching well, overall pretty sound. they play a lot of our defense there too, which should make the transition easier. with dupree on the other side i think he could work out well for us.

    i still also like fields from louisville too. add some strength which most have to and he seems well versed in our defense too.

    there are guys out there that can help us for sure. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  24. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    I will tell ya what it is hard to talk a player and where he fits with us running a mix of 3-4 4-3 and with that said maybe it is time to get a guy like Kpassagnon and let him like you say rush on passing downs and give Cam and Tuitt a much needed break. I am not saying I don't want Cam and Tuitt on the field but I also feel they need a break sometime. I know nothing on Donahue and Ebukam so these are guys I will look at, thanks.

    If we want Watt it is gonna have to be with our 1st rounder and I am not sure I want to go LB in the 1st. I think it will depend on who is available then. I like Watt so he is a guy I would consider in the 1st. As far as Fields I have read the off field stuff is a problem for teams and I have to think one of them teams is us, right? Gonna be fun the next few weeks to see where some guys climb and fall on the draft board.
     
  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    fields had trouble a couple of years ago at tcu. they have dropped the charges and he did counseling. there has been no problem since he's been at louisville the last couple of years. maybe the kid learned his lesson and matured from that frshman or sophmore year when it happened. i'm sure they will vet him about that but hopefully it's a non issue anymore. :cool:
     

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