Should we offersheet Malcolm Butler?

I'd be fine going in to camp and seeing who fit where/better. Cooper has those long arms to go with short area quicks that make him much better for man schemes, down field coverage, etc. But he doesn't have Ross's football IQ and route recognition.

Is either one an ideal slot corner? No.
But I'd be happier with both of them on the field. It would definitely add more elements to our coverage structures.

 

my concern with ross is not so much the coverage from the slot if we indeed did move him there, it's the run support factor that the slot needs to have in his arsenal. that would be his weakness at that spot. will be an interesting saga to watch if indeed we would get a guy like cooper.

 

Honestly, Im less concerned about his run support inside than I am with his athletic ability to play man in the slot. Ross is a good solid outside corner in zone and off man. He can even play press outside where he can force the release. But playing man inside... it's all agility based. And that's just not a strength of his.

In space, he can break down routes, make quick decisions, and has good closing ability. He's been solid for us, because he fits the traditional steelers outside schemes of off man/zone/cover 3/cover 6.

But, adding corner talent is a must. And I'd be happy to go to camp seeing competition. Cockrell has really never played in the slot... so my perception (and yours) could be changed.

 

3 yrs / 15 million / 5 per?

Last year, Patrick Robinsons got 3 years / 13.5 / 4.5 per
Last year, Casey Heyward got 3 years / 15.3 / 5.1 per
In 2015, Justin Bethel got 3 years / 15 million / 5.0 per

Those are the best comparables i could come up with

The higher end...

Last year, David Amerson got 4 yrs /8.75 per
Buster Skrin got 4 years / 6.75 per

 

i don't think there will be any doubt that we will have competition in camp in the defensive backfield. i'd sure like awuzie and kazee added in the draft. cooper as a FA. i'd be very upbeat about our chances against anyone with those upgrades and what we have.

 

i would do it, a lot of people have faith in this current secondary and the ability of the DB coach, and i can't fathom it. It's not just the scheme, the players for the most part are average to below average. That's real talk. Not trying to Sh*t on any of the players, but it's the reality. Ben was 2 years left man, get him a defense now, not some athletic project in the draft that could pan out in a few years. Get Ben a defense man

 

i thought a little high for skrin back then but i did want us to go after him last year.

 

I don't think Butler is a top 10 or 15 CB ...IMO he is probably a top 30 CB if not playing for Bill ....The Patriots are masters of creating value they are probably going to get two first rounders and a couple of seconds for their bu QB ..I wished KC could do some of these things...Coach Bill always moves a guy at peak value and usually those guys are not at that same level for the next Team ...Butler is 27 I would prefer a CB with a bit more speed....Butler is not that fast I think he ran like a 4.6 he does have game speed , but could get exposed in man coverage against a speedster....Again I would prefer a faster guy..How much of the scheme hides his lack of speed ?

As some have stated I would rather go younger and cheaper and I would add with more speed ..I would rather roll the dice on Sidney Jones https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-sidney-jones-cb-washington/
he should be around pick 22 or 23 ,what would it take to move up those spots...This kid can play man and is very good at it, he is what this D needs I would rather go this route..

 

That's stupid. You're simply choosing an argument and random, and using a trope based generalization to defend it.

Actually, what Bill is a master of is identifying under-valued talent. Malcolm Butler, Julian Edelman

For the record, Butler ran a 4.6 at his pro-day... after not being drafted, he was brought in for a try out with the Pats and ran a 4.4... 3 times. They signed him right there.

Butler is fast enough. If you were able to actual discern football talent and didn't rely on googling his 40 time, you'd know that.

It's funny because Butler's greatest traits are the two things you clamor for.

The irony is that you complain about the Secondary... and are opposed to actually improving it, in favor of gambling on the draft.

 

Malcom Butler's PFF CB grade was 88.6 for the 2016 season.
He's almost universally ranked in the top 10 among his peers each of the last 3 seasons.

 

But the question still remains is it him or the scheme ? I think Jones will be a better CB than the post NE Butler ...As stated the Pats are masters of creating value what if that time they reported was false ? He doesn't look like a 4.4 guy to me ...Yes The Pats did see enough to sign him and they have worked him into the 5 and 6 DB system they run, but can he play in our system ? And the bigger question is can he play man ? We need a man CB , and I don't think he is it ..Could I be wrong ?Maybe...Could you be wrong about how good he is ?Maybe...

 

I think we've established who is far more likely to be wrong

 

Jones tore his achilles at his pro day.

 

Well that's not good maybe a guy to look at later in the draft ..

 

Well it's obvious New England isn't completely sold on Butler, they gave FA Gilmore 65 million and tendered Butler 3 million .

 

Or New England sees the opportunity to have 2 #1 corners for a combined 16 million next year.

Gilmore's signing doesn't reflect on Butler at all. They are just maximizing their cap space.

 

I like Butler, but I don't want to forfeit a 1st round pick to the Pats to get him.

Imagine if the Pats took our pick and drafted a future HOF, Oh lord I don't think I could ever live with myself again.

 

Butler wants starter money , looking at 10 mil per year.....

Even if we offered that NE would just match it.... They still have est 27 mil in cap space.

Cajun

 

Then why is Butler name being rumored in trade talks, his agent is talking to New Orleans I heard.

 

I doubt Butler stays with NE, dude can't be happy with a 3 million tender and they just gave Gilmore 65 million.

 

Because he's a RFA and there's a risk in attempting to maximize cap space

 

So I was thinking outside the box, why not sign Butler and either do one of 3 things. #1 make the cheats pay more and hurt their cap space for a few years, 2) trade Butler to the Saints and while we would lose out 30th pick we could gain the Saints 1st rounder or 3) just keep him id 1 and 2 don't work out.

I am just thinking the Cheats have so much cap space lets make them use it what is the worst that could happen we end up with a good DB???? I have no idea how serious the Saints are but it sounds serious and if we could move up to their pick and hurt the Cheats why not. Of course if we were to do all that and none of it worked out than we would have to be ready to eat some salary for awhile which we all know we don't have a lot of. Just something to think about....

 

the saints said they will not give up the first for him.

 

Actually this is what was said:

"It’s ongoing," Payton said. "Obviously, you can’t have any (trade) discussions with New England because New England hasn’t signed the player. So for us, it was a chance to meet him, put him on the board, find out how much football he knows. He is from Mississippi. I think it was a good step.

 

no actually this is what he said.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwih7Nbf5f_SAhXF64MKHavEDcUQqUMIHzAA&url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sean-payton-saints-wont-give-the-patriots-the-no-11-pick-for-malcolm-butler/&usg=AFQjCNFzYudwMj4nLHvhjOD97ND0_Xixfw&bvm=bv.151325232,d.eWE