Run Defense; A Closer Look

See post #45. Average turnover margin isn't the same predictor as turnovers in individual games.

 

Sure. No push-back on that at all.

And averages are kinda goofy because a team can force 5 in one game and zero for several others.

My only point is that to take the position that taking the football away on defense is not somehow a big part of defensive success is hard for me to wrap my head around.

 

I never said turnovers was not important but those defense were still dominant even when they did not have turnovers.It was hard to move the ball against those teams,who is one of the most important thing for a dominant defense

 

I got to confess...I do not think I understand what you are arguing for here.

For instance, the Seahawks only have 3 games this season where they did NOT force a turnover on defense. They went 2-1 in those games. So I guess that aligns with the idea that you can win football games without turnovers...but in the rest of their games they had 1 or more defensive takeaways. They likely would not have beat the Steelers without forcing a couple of turnovers.

Clearly you can't just say you are going to produce a bunch of turnovers and do nothing else on defense...but I don't think anyone is making that extreme of an argument.

 

Why are our DL’s being pushed off the LOS? Only two or three? Poor technique? Cant be lack of strength. And as someone pointed out tackles 5 + yard down the field sort of lose their value. You don't want to see your safeties near the top in tackles.

 

Don't ya think the Steelers front seven are tired of getting
their asses kicked? Or coaches put them in a position to succeed.
C'mon people this isn't rocket science..

 

They still have takeaways. They just also have as many giveaways.
Look at it this way.
10 out of the 11 teams in the playoffs right now are the top 10 teams in takeaways. That should tell You something

 

I think the argument is exactly that: steelers don't do much on defense except get turn overs.

That works well during the season, but has failed miserably come playoff time for the last decade. Been saying that for about a decade... all it takes is a playoff opponent that protects the ball well and it's golf season time.

 

Turnovers are a huge part of Seattle's defensive success, I agree, but they're 4th in yards per drive defensively versus 29th for the Steelers... They're dominant no matter what because it's very difficult to move the ball against them.

My problem with the Steelers, and this is why I say they live and die by turnovers, is that they've been outplayed by over 100 yards six times this year (I'm not including the Colts game since the majority of the Colts' yards were in garbage time), and the Steelers won three of those games...Of course, the offense deserves some blame for that, but the defense too, since they're 29th in yards per drive defensively, and the opposing team have the most plays per drive.

The only time the Steelers' defense has been dominant in the last 10-15 years was in 2019 and possibly 2020... I know that in 2019, the opponents had 38 turnovers against us, but it was a big struggle for the opposing offenses struggled to move the ball against us, despite being 3rd in yards per drive in 2019 and 2020.

Turnovers are important but I prefer a defense like the Broncos.Very few turnovers but they are still elite like crazy

 

The Broncos have only 10 turnovers this year on defense,27th in the NFL

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2025.htm

 

Yeah they don't do anything well besides turn the ball over, and have one of the leagues top endzone Defenses. LoL
I mean who would want that.
Again 10 of the top 11 teams in turnovers on D are all playoff bound, and as of right now, are all in the playoffs. That in itself says it all.

 

Again so what. You are picking one team.
Again ...10 of the top 11 teams in forcing turnovers are right now in the playoffs . I'm giving you ten teams, and You keep bringing up one. LoL
There are always outliers in everything.

 

Lets see if they win playoff games with this D this year, or they give up 35ish points like the last decade.

Hopefully they don't give up 35ish points again, especially if they win the division and host a playoff game.

edit: stop misquoting me... i didn't say they don't do "anything well".

 

Winning a playoff game won't prove anything about what we are discussing. The only thing that would prove your point would be if all the top 10 teams in turnovers on D don't win a playoff game. Then, then you would have something.
This isn't a Steelers point, this is a Defensive point, and I have shown that all the top teams in forcing turnovers on D are right now in the playoffs. So if none of them win a playoff game, I will say You are correct.
Also name a playoff game where we gave up 35, and the team we played didn't force a turnover.

 

The Steelers have won one game this year when they didn't force a turnover. Against Dillon Gabriel and the Browns.

 

Now how many games have we lost that the opposite team didn't get a turnover from us??

 

I'm debating the steelers defense, not some abstract and absolute condition about turn overs. If we don't want to discuss Steelers, then I'll stay out of the debate.

For what it's worth, given the nature of football, IMHO, discussing one aspect/stat of the game in isolation is, frankly, useless. But i leave you peeps to it.

 

LoL. You can't have a discussion of football without comparisons. How would that be possible???
I laugh everytime people say this,....I'm not worried about another team, I'm only talking Steelers.
Well pray tell, how would anything we discuss have any meaning if it wasn't in comparison of other teams. LoL. You can't play football in a void, against nobody.

 

LOL!!

Show me exactly where I said to not compare against other teams??

Stop misquoting me....

 

LoL. If You just want to argue, we can do that.
People have complained about we play no D, and suck, and that we only win because of turnovers, and I showed we don't lead in turnovers, and all of the top 10 out of 11 teams that forced turnovers are all in the playoffs as of right now, and You keep arguing the point. I can't change the facts to make You feel better.
They are what they are, and You haven't answered me, and it has to do with turnovers. You said I hope we don't give up 35 points in the playoffs, and I asked what game in the playoffs have we given up 35 points that the other team didn't force turnovers from us, trying to show you how important turnovers are.

 

I thought we were only gifted TOs never created forced

 

I remember when the complaint was that the defense didn’t force enough turnovers.

I agree that the current defense stinks against the run.

 

Zero

 

LOL

 

And that my friend shows how much turnovers matter.