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Redemption; The Return To Steelers Football. The 2019 Steelers Draft Class Review

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by AskQuestionsLater, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Or I am not debating against colossal bulverism either.


    As I said, believe whatever you want. Right or wrong, information or otherwise, nothing is going to change that about you. Hence why I said, believe what you want.


    For that matter, you do quite well in that regard anyway. Have fun! :thumbs_up:
     
  2. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I didn't ask you anything unfair. I asked you to support your claim regarding Johnson's drops. You avoided the question, which makes me think you can't support it.

    You also avoided what I've seen as one of the biggest knocks on Johnson, his lack of strength. Also, people keep saying that Brown's measurables weren't great, either, but he was faster than Johnson coming out of college. So we know going in, he's slower and weaker than Brown.

    Believe what you want, but at least own where it comes from. Thanks.
     
  3. Destroyer

    Destroyer Member

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    The thing I like most about Layne is the fact that he’s only been playing the position for a limited amount of time and is already this good, it leads me to believe that he still has a lot of room to improve and get better. I mean, this is the glass half full viewpoint.
     
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  4. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    As AQL mentioned, you are using bulverism. You haven't shown that the Johnson actually has a drop problem, and then badger AQL for not proving why Johnson has a problem which may or may not exist. (The SteelerDepot profile does not use the word "drop" once. Zierlein mentions "Focus drops are an issue for him", but it is unclear if he is bad relative to other college receivers, or if this is a criticism that applies to nearly all college receivers.)

    C.S. Lewis: "You must show that a man is wrong before you start explaining why he is wrong. The modern method is to assume without discussion that he is wrong."
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    There was no assumption that he was incorrect in my initial response. It was a fair question. AQL made a claim. I asked him to support it. He can't, so he resorted to making it about me to cover for the weakness of his argument.

    Johnson had a fairly high drop rate. That doesn't mean he will definitely have a drop problem as a pro, but it is a legitimate concern. AQL claimed that the drops weren't Johnson's fault, trying to blame them on the quarterback he played with this past season, but he can't support that claim.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  6. MeanJoeBlue

    MeanJoeBlue Well-Known Member

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    After his initial response, you posted this: "How do you know the drops weren't his fault? Did you go through the film and look at them all, or is that a guess based on who was throwing the ball?"

    You didn't show that Johnson has a drop problem. You still haven't done that.
    Seems like a lot of work to find every Toledo video (assuming that they are publicly accessible) and count hundreds of passing play, to look for something that may not exist. You haven't given a solid reason for anyone (other than you) to do that

    (I made an edit to my earlier post while you were typing up your response. If Johnson had a drop rate that was disturbingly high compared to other college receivers, I would have expected the SteelersDepot profile to mention that.)
     
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  7. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I read about the drop rate elsewhere. AQL clearly did some research before his post, so I asked about it. It was a fair question. He dismissed the drops by claiming they were the quarterback's fault, but he can't back up that point.

    I never claimed I could show Johnson has a drop problem. I'm asking about the specific claim that Johnson's drops last season were the quarterback's fault. I'm not saying AQL has to go through the video of Toledo's season. I asked him to present evidence to back up his claim and he chose to make it about me to cover for the fact that he can't. He could simply admit that he doesn't have the evidence, but that would take a level of honesty I do not expect to see from him.

    Here is just one of the multiple reports I found online that mentions his issues with drops. And this is from a list that actually praises Johnson.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-my-guys-from-the-pff-staff-for-the-2019-nfl-draft
     
  8. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    do you sh*t on everything? lmao
     
  9. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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  10. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I actually like the Snell pick. I don't think the Bettis comparisons work, but that's a hell of a high bar.

    I think Devin Bush is a great fit, though I thought the price was a bit high. I really like Layne and Buggs, too.

    I don't actually hate Johnson. In the fourth or fifth round, I would have liked the pick. I disagree with taking him over Winovich and Butler, but I'm not dismissing the guy.
     
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  11. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    Ok so here's my issue.. Donte and Washington both being able to play the slot. Washington showed last year he wasn't a deep threat and Moncrief hasn't played a down for us yet. That's why I think it was important to trade up 5 spots and get Metcalf over D Johnson. Metcalf is a sure fire deep threat that will fill that need. Where now we have two huge question marks for slot and deep threat.
     
  12. blackandgoldpatrol

    blackandgoldpatrol Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people like to point out the similarities between Johnson and AB at the same point in there prospective careers..... what no one mentions is that AB transformed himself with an unmatched work ethic, otherwise, he would've remained a return specialist most of his career...
    If Johnson has that same work ethic without the swelled head then great... I do think he has potential, but the coaches and team need to stop trying to replicate past great players.... close the book and write a new one....
    While I like bush.... shouldn't the coaches adjust their scheme, rather than try to clone the player that made said scheme work..... this is why I'm skeptical...
    I hold out hope because I'm an eternal Steelers optimist, but it is tempered by what I'm seeing from the guys calling the shots
     
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  13. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Well, that is what Pittsburgh is banking on. Washington to take that second year leap. Personally, due to his upbringing, I think he can. As for Donte, he allows the team to operate in four receiver sets. He also acts as a veteran presence as stated before; an additional bonus.


    I do not think Tomlin wants the younger receivers to proverbially fend for themselves. Having that Veteran knowledge not only assists their development but also their professionalism.



    At least... that is how it should work. Does not always work that way. That being said, I do trust Donte. Seems to be a good pickup and leader.
     
  14. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That all makes sense. Also, people need to realize that Brown was already faster than Johnson coming out of college.
     
  15. SDOT

    SDOT Well-Known Member

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    I like the Moncrief signing a lot btw. I'm just not sold on his speed anymore. I watch his highlight videos and he's making plays against us with Polamalu out there. He was burning people early his career than it seems that separation was getting smaller and smaller. I hope I'm wrong.
     
  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    As I said, he is more than a deep threat now in this point in his career. Washington has no choice but to be. I would imagine Moncrief is going to show him some good tips on what to do as being a big play receiver is more than just simply out running your adversary.
     
  17. Busman

    Busman

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    Cannot see who this is directed toward but I agree lol. Must have them blocked
     
  18. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    No worries if you do not know! I do not think it would be in either of our interests anyway. On that note though, I am far more intrigued at our new players and less worried about the critiques. Let these rookies write their story.


    If it turns out good, great. If not, always room for them to develop.
     
  19. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    My optimism will always be tempered until this staff proves otherwise. Oh and I for one mentioned ABs work ethic as a major factor and how it's yet to be seen if DJ has some of that. Claiming he didn't train for the 40 in the combine is a either a bit mystifying or not completely honest a claim.
     
  20. Busman

    Busman

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    your likely right about that. lol

    There does seem to be some elation and angst each and every draft year. We are a few players away from a SB trip. Let this be the year. I really think we got the talent now .. This defense is getting faster. If the corners work out like i think the ilbs do I think we are in good shape overall.
     
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  21. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I've always thought using the block was silly. Why hide from another poster?

    Trying to antagonize said poster while hiding from him is cowardly.
     

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