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Question for the Cap Experts And Offseason Plan

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by dexter402, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. dexter402

    dexter402 Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    Sadly we are having this conversation a lot earlier then any of us expected, but it is what it is and it’s time to rebuild and retool.

    I realize it’s probably impossible to tell yet, but I am assuming you can make educated guesses. The cap is supposed to be 175 million, correct? We are 25 million over? I am assuming Ben and Pouncey are retiring, at least that is the impression they gave the entire world sitting together on the bench like that, we will save 21 million from Ben, what about pouncey? Other cuts I see being made are Vance, Williams and Haden. Are there any other cap casualties you see?

    Realistically Dupree, Juju, Conner, Feleir, Villanueva and Hilton will be lost to FA and I don’t see a way we could afford them or would want to in some cases.

    Of all the pending FA’s I am most curious about Sutton, and would moving on from Haden realistically free up enough space to retain him? I think Highsmith moves into Bud’s spot, we have WR depth and Doctson for Feiler. Mason and perhaps a draft pick will man the QB position. We are going to need to sign/draft a LT and RB. I was hoping Chuks would be able to take over for Al but he just seemed to be overmatched too many times.

    Lots of holes and not a lot of capital to fill them all. I would appreciate any Info from more knowledgeable users to cover what I have missed.
  2. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    I don't really know what to make of the future of the offensive line. The starters just aren't good enough, and we lost talent we were trying to develop.

    I don't see much demand for Big Al on the market. His skills have declined. We could probably get him back for a decent price.
  3. OX1947

    OX1947 Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2017
    Coaching is really bad. Doesn't matter much about the rest. 11-0 to losing in the wild card game to the Clowns. That's Josh Danielsesque
  4. dexter402

    dexter402 Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011

    I truthfully don’t want Al back. I truthfully think the majority of our issues came from poor O-Line play and play calling. Our Offensive line needs a complete rebuild, the only bright spot was Doctson and that bodes well but too many times when Ben did try to throw deep he had people in his lap on 2 seconds. Even tonight on one of the interceptions Pouncey was pushed back into Bens lap.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Football Fan

    Football Fan New Member

    Jan 11, 2021
    Dexter, here is the info you requested
    You are correct, by cutting Ben, the Steelers will save $19,000,000 in cap room. Cutting Pouncey saves another $8,000,000

    Moving on from Haden would net another $7,000,000

    You can review the entire Steeler team at overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/
  6. Rollers

    Rollers Well-Known Member

    Nov 8, 2016
    that is a great word! :)
  7. steel_ben7

    steel_ben7 Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2015
    I agree they have major cap issues but the coaching starting with Mike Tomlin is a big problem on this team. I really think it’s time to seriously consider blowing this thing up and as much as I hate to say it sit down with Ben and tell him you need to retire or you make him retire. The transition period needs to start right now. This team has no money and can’t pay anybody if they keep Ben. If he doesn’t want to walk away then like I said before you don’t give him a choice and you make him walk away as painful of a decision as that might be it’s the right thing to do for this franchise moving forward.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. TRUCK

    TRUCK Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2016
    They should try to talk Ben into taking a significant pay cut before they cut him. Does he have a cap hit if he voluntarily retires? I doubt he’d do that big a solid for the team but I’m curious.
  9. pjgruden


    Oct 16, 2011
    One way or another, I don't think Ben is on the team next year. He's due a $15M roster bonus, and his $41.25M cap hit just isn't tenable. I hope the team doesn't get the bright idea to give him an extension. It sucks, and he gave them a lot of good years, but it's time to move on.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    He either retires or he gets an extension, that’s it. Can anybody honestly see him taking a pay cut? I can’t.
  11. steel_ben7

    steel_ben7 Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2015
    Yea I hate to do it as well and can’t believe I’m saying it but I think you gotta cut him too. It will free up money and the cupboard is still not completely bare on this team on both offense and defense that they can still compete at least for a few down years until you find your next franchise QB. The time for fooling yourself into the fantasy land that Ben is gonna win you another Super Bowl if he is brought back next year needs to end.
  12. SWSteel

    SWSteel Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2020

    Art is just dumb enough to extend him n prolong this

    Writing is on wall, he's done n Tomlin isn't the answer if looking for Lombardi's

    Art wont cut Ben due to long gap between Terry n Ben n won't fire Tomlin cuz it's not "the Steelers way"

    Needs to be this time n now

  13. Maddog78

    Maddog78 Well-Known Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    This is a Capocalypse offseason, as I tried to explain in other threads. You can see dead cap $$$ if players are cut here.

    There's no easy fixes here. They're going to lose most if not all free agents, and still have to cut some vets. This will be a bottom five NFL roster next season.

  14. cajunyankee

    cajunyankee Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    First thing is Ben will not retire...... He isn’t about to give back the millions he would make in 2021. The team won’t cut him because it’s not who they are !!!!!!

    Vince is a big hit but with all the issues we had at ILB he isn’t getting cut!!

  15. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2011
    I can't do things in a vacuum. I need to lay it out by position and determine a projected change based on that.


    Ben - His cap hit is not able to be paid. You hear the talk last night. I think we can expect him to retire.
    Rudolph - Maybe he is a one year starter, as he has grown, but I think you need to look to add some competition for the starter position as Dobbs isn't it.
    Dobbs - Fine as depth, but will should never start in this league.
    I think maybe bringing in another starter option, not even from the draft, may be the way to go. A Marcus Mariotta type guy who has some staring experience, may be the way to go. Rudolph and him complete for the starter job with the understanding that they are pretty happy with either starting and the other pushing them all year.


    Conner - I honestly think he ran hard this year, and he made plays with the opportunities given last night, but he just isn't good enough to be a game changer.
    Snell - nothing but depth
    MacFarland - I do think he has talent, but the problem he has to have a line who opens big holes to do damage. He isn't going to make his own. He has to have the opportunity in the open field in order to make plays.
    Watt - I think he was going to be a bigger part last night, but mostly, he's a special teamer. If Ben goes, he will need to be better next year.


    Ebron is back. There is not one player Ben missed more passes to last night than Ebron. They were not on the same page or at least Ben couldn't figure out how to get the ball to his hands.
    Vance. There is not one player that I think we used incorrectly more than Vance this year. The 2 TE sets with both going into the routes is an opportunity missed this year.
    Gentry. Just don't see it. He is the #3 next year even if we go with Ebron and Radar.
    Radar. If Vance leaves and he is just a glorified blocker anyway. Radar is fine for that role. Ebron receiver. Radar blocker. Gentry 3rd guy.


    I think if Ben goes, you have the money for JuJu. Sign him to an extension.

    JuJu, Washington, Claypool, Johnson, and RayRay. Good group and only needs to change if JuJu isn't brought back. At least IMO.


    What a disaster!!

    AV, Feiler and Pouncey are probably all gone. In addition, Banner may not be back. Hawkins may not be back. Isodora may not be back. Hassenauer shouldn't be back.

    You know how we typically go out and get one starter in free agency every year, this is the year we get a starter for the Oline.

    Let's just start in the middle. You need a starting C. Maybe you bring back the depth guy because you can only replace so many every year.

    At guard, I think we still have 2 starters. Decastro and Dotson are your starters next year. Period. I liked Gray, but we let him go.

    At tackle, you may have 4 different guys all hoping to be a RT or you may have just 1. AV, Feiler, Hawkins, and Banner are all UFA. Chuks has one year left. I have no idea what the FO is thinking. You can sign some or all of these guys, but we need to draft a starting LT. Could AV move to the right? Will Banner be okay after ACL? Do they think Chuks is a starter? Do they move Feiler back to RT? I just have no idea, but this position is a mess.

    I have a meeting I need to jump on, but I will come back and post my defensive thoughts. The last thing I will say is this will be a more complete team if Ben retires, but will be taking a huge loss at the most important position on the field. That is a horrible feeling.
    • Like Like x 2
  16. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2011
    Ok. So Let's talk through the Defense:


    Alualu is a UFA. Please bring him back. Really like him. Tuitt and Heyward come back. Davis and Buggs come back. Mondeaux and Wormley can stay or go. Any cheap UFDA will serve that role.


    Personally, if Ben goes and you save the what I think is 22 million, I think the first step is to get Dupree back under contract. 15 million? I'm not a cap person, but if I can keep Dupree/Watt/Highsmith as my top OLBs, I'm bringing back Ola and some additional UFDAs and calling it a group. If not, I think you need to draft a guy at some point.


    This one group I think needs a renovation with someone needing to really get what the team needs from the position. Williams, Spillane and Willamson all have the same issue. They all need to play next to the normal playmaker. Devin Bush was really missing from this team, especially yesterday. Guys like Allen and Brooks should be considered for depth behind Bush, but in all honesty I think it should be Edmunds. Even if we don't bring back Dupree the LB position is the most important position for a D. Maybe we even consider drafting a guy like Bush if he is available. Gilbert for what it is worth I think is done.


    I like Haden and Nelson as starters. I like Hilton and Sutton as depth guys, but I really want to see more reps for Pierre. I think he can help us do some things no one else on the roster can. Plan man. Even if we determine that Haden is done and go with the other 4, I think Sutton and Nelson with Pierre and Hilton as depth is still a better group than when we had Artie Burns playing.


    We have Fitz. And then? Edmunds needs to move to ILB as does Brooks and Allen. Danger can come back, but I doubt Davis is brought back. If the moves of positions happens, then we need to consider that we are drafting S yet again. After picking Edmunds and Davis, we still need a playmaker ball hawk at the position.
  17. Disco1981

    Disco1981 Well-Known Member

    Mar 20, 2017
    And Dotson didn't play! Dumbass Tomlin played Feiler, Who sucks!
  18. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

    Apr 21, 2016
    Cap plan?! Personnel plan?!

    Players like Bud, JuJu, Big Al and Joe Haden are as good as gone for a start. Other players like Zach Banner and Cameron Sutton need decided on now; Sutton likely leaving but I digress. As for the immediate future, rebuild that Offensive Line. Start from the Inside now that Pouncey is retiring.
  19. 08SteelCurtain

    08SteelCurtain Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2015
    There will be dead money with Pouncey. $3.5mil was pushed to next year which has a cap hit of $14.5mil.

    Steven Nelson is due $14mil next year, and Haden is right around that neighborhood as well. Important to note that due to the restructures of their contracts, Nelson would carry at least a $3.5mil cap hit (Although not likely to be cut) and Haden around $3mil (if cut)
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  20. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2019
    That would do nothing, the dead cap money has already been paid to him through restructuring. This money has to be accounted for, his 19 million salary will either be paid if he stays, can be reduced, or some of it pushed to next year if the extend There is no take a pay cit and then cut him advantage. it is pretty straight forward.
  21. BigBensPosse

    BigBensPosse Active Member

    Dec 28, 2015
    Yes he is a 25 million dollar cap hit if he retires.
  22. Mike T

    Mike T Well-Known Member

    Sep 10, 2018
    this explains it all! YOu have 90 mil roughly in 6 players not named Ben and most of them i would not pay half their cap hit for currently. Then you factor in Ben's contract and your at 130 mil for 7 players. THis does not include Dupree or TJ's 10 million Cap hit next year which might go down some with a new deal but will just be kicking the can further down the road. That leave roughly 35 million for 45 other players if the cap goes to 175. THey have some hard decisions to make and honestly its all gonna start with Ben. If he doesnt retire then the cap dilemma will be pushed to next year but its coming no matter what.

  23. TarheelFlyer

    TarheelFlyer Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2011
    I think Ben and Pouncey are both done. I could be wrong, but its my gut.

    Let's assume you can bring back both Sutton and Hilton by cutting Haden, giving you Nelson and Sutton as starters, Hilton still as your #3 and Pierre as your number 4. Do you do it?
  24. 08SteelCurtain

    08SteelCurtain Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2015
    That’s a good question, and yes I would. Haden has another quality year left in him (I think) and anything after that is pure speculation. Give me the younger guys who are able with the lower market price

    Of note here - Joe Haden being released, I believe only frees up 6-7 million annually? That’s arguably enough to pay Sutton, but I don’t think it retains Hilton. So you’d need another move for both.
  25. Lambert

    Lambert Well-Known Member

    Jun 5, 2015
    Seriously, if they had any clue whatsoever, they would do a major player purge and eat all the cap hits at once. The 2021 schedule is brutal anyway.

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