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QBs and defense

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Steel Acorn, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. Steel Acorn

    Steel Acorn Well-Known Member

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    I hate the overemphasis on QB play, especially during the playoffs. Sure, Mahomes, and the rest are great, but Tyreek Hill, Kelce, etc. are also on the team and turn good QB play into rather spectacular stuff. And don't forget the O-line. I think they all get overlooked as contributing to the great QB play.

    And so many say to complete against the current great QBs you need a great franchise QB. But QBs don't play against one another. They play against a defense. It was defensive collapses that determined lots of outcomes last weekend (coaching and players). I am looking for the next great defense to really go against this crop of QBs.

    With Watt, Heyward, Fitzpatrick as a core, maybe with a few additions it could be the Steelers.

    One can dream.
     
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  2. dirty

    dirty Well-Known Member

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    I approve of this message.
     
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  3. steel machine

    steel machine Well-Known Member

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    Steven Tyler said it best, 'Dream on, dream on, dream until your dream comes true".

    Great dream, sadly I'm betting more on a few nightmares ahead but one never knows.
     
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  4. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I also approve of this message. :thumbs_up:
     
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  5. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    A good defense and a really good QB are both needed. This isn't the 90's.

    Ask the Titans what it's like to have a 90's style team in 2022.
     
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  6. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    Titan defense is not that good. How about we ask 49ers. I don't see a Allstars Qb on their team, but they are in the NFC Championship for the 2nd time in what....3 years.
     
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  7. Rel

    Rel Well-Known Member

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    How many Super Bowls have they won? You don't build a team around an anomaly, you build it around the norm.

    Brady
    Mahomes
    Brady
    Foles
    Brady
    Manning (P)
    Brady
    Wilson
    Flacco
    Manning (E)
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Roethlisberger
    Manning (E)
    Manning (P)
    Roethlisberger
    Brady
    Brady
    Johnson
    Brady
    Dilfer
    Warner
    Elway
    Elway
    Farve
    Aikman
    Young
    Aikman
    Aikman
    Rypien
    Montana
    Montana

    I was wrong though, going back to 1989 it pretty much always required a really good to great QB to win a Super Bowl. Just because it happened 3 or 4 times over 30+ years does not make it a sound strategy. Look at how many of those superbowl winning quarterbacks are in or going to the hall of fame. Anyone who thinks building a defense and getting an average guy in there to play QB is just delusional.
     
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  8. KMM

    KMM Well-Known Member

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    To add to Rel's excellent post, let's take a look at the final 8 teams standing this year and their QBs:

    Mahomes
    Allen
    Burrow
    Rodgers
    Brady
    Stafford
    Tannehill
    Garappalo

    Depending on how you want to rate Stafford that's 62-75% are elite QBs.

    The final four are 50-75% depending on how you rate Stafford.

    Given how elite QBs are by definition fewer in munber, they're clearly way overrepresented in the postseason. You really need one to maximize your chances of success.
     
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  9. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    This would be true... except that very same Patrick Mahomes just took the vaunted Buffalo Bills Defense and ripped them to pieces. For that matter, Joe Burrow got beaten like a piñata all game long by that Titans Front Seven; a game winning Field Goal in the Bengals favor that won them the game. Regarding Stafford, how he overcame four turnovers to win the game is beyond me. Heck.... I did not believe he had it in him for much of his career!! :eek:



    As I have stated many times already, an above average QB is all but a necessity anymore to simply make the playoffs. Having a Franchise QB can get you further. Having "the guy" makes the road to the playoffs more efficient for a Franchise. QBs like Mahomes only make said journey a bit more smoother... should all go well for QBs even such as him. If there is something I can agree with the OP is this...



    While the Franchise QB can get the team to the big dance... he alone cannot win it. Tom Brady found that out in 2018 against the likes of Philadelphia; Mahomes learning that as well a season ago. There is a reason why the NFL is the ultimate Team Sport; everyone needs to play at their best just to win games and never mind make it to the playoffs.... much less the Super Bowl.



    There are two reasons why the team with the higher score wins games;



    1.) Offense scored more points.


    2.) Defense did not allow more points.




    Nothing more to it than that.
     
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  10. Kreighoff

    Kreighoff Well-Known Member

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    I always considered Stafford to be a very good QB it's just too bad he wasted so many years in Detroit.

    I think Garappalo is the weakest of the final four, but SF defense is playing really well.

    KC was average in their first 8 games until they fixed their defense, once that was done their offense got more turns with the ball and took off.

    I think in today's NFL it is almost impossible to build and play defense like the Raven's when they won with Dilfer.

    Today if you hit someone too hard you get penalized even on what look to be clean hits.
     
  11. Jammasterc

    Jammasterc Well-Known Member

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    Football smart Coaches and Players is what you need.
     
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  12. Steel Acorn

    Steel Acorn Well-Known Member

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    This. Each of the "franchise" QBs were often part of a pair or trio. Brady-Gronk. Big Ben - AB, Hines. Mahomes - Kelce and Hill. And I don't think they had shabby offensive lines. I think it is tough to extract the value of a QB without considering the supporting cast. In watching the weekend games, a good many throws looked "college open" because of the ability of the receivers - most QBs would make those throws. Of course, a bunch of the other throws were spectacular, but the QB-receiver pairing is crucial. The ultimate team sport, and the QB role is important, but overemphasized.

    And a good defense that can play 60 minutes can make a QB's and receiver's life tough. Actually, hopefully they only play 20 minutes, as their complimentary offense keeps the ball.
     
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  13. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Shanahan has 3 losing seasons in 5 years. You're focused too much on Championship games and Super Bowls.
     
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  14. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    You post all that , but Don't show what all of their Defense rank when they won. Hmmm:hmm:
    I believe since the 70 only 3 teams have Won the SB that defense wasn't top 10. I would then say Defense is Very important No???, or let Me put it in Your terms.....to think so would be delusional. :thumbs_up:
     
  15. Brandon556211

    Brandon556211 Well-Known Member

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    Bills had the #1 defense and got shredded for over 560 yards. The rules these days just cater towards offense.
     
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  16. DJ18Baller

    DJ18Baller Well-Known Member

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    You are rarely winning it all without an elite QB. Out of the last 30 years 4 times it has happened 2 of them were with some of the best defenses ever Dilfer and Ravens and Johnson with Bucs.

    The Foles and Flacco years give a little bit of hope. They didn’t have all time defenses by any means with average QBs and won it all.
     
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  17. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but with the same breath....You are not winning it all with a terrible defense either. Like I said .... I believe it was 3 teams in the History of the SB have won with a defense outside of the top 10.
     
  18. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    This. Elite teams can only carry the coach so far… well unless it’s 2008 :hehehe:
     
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  19. ljkjr74

    ljkjr74 Well-Known Member

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    Mason will be the QB for the Steelers next year. No good QB will come to this team as long as we have the coaches we have alone with the management we have. This what if thread is getting boring, let’s move on. Oh one other thing, there no listening and they could care less.
     
  20. DJ18Baller

    DJ18Baller Well-Known Member

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    So what you are saying is that we are screwed on both fronts then :lolol:
     
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  21. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    LoL. Hopefully not.:thumbs_up: I really believe watching the D give up 200 yards on the ground just made me sick worse than watching the offense sputter. You know giving up a bad rushing game Here , or there is one thing, but 2 be dead last in the league at it is another. :puking 3:
     
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