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push up the middle

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by nor, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    All the teams that play NE tough all have push up the middle to disrupt Brady and/or force him into a 7 step drop where the edge rushers can get him. Balt, Atlanta, Cincy, Denver, NY Giants, etc.



    Here's a link of Brady's sacks. Watch the push up the middle that the Steelers don't have. Good cornerbacks and James Harrison and Watt don't matter if he's in a 3 step drop:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9IpsK-x-W8



    here's a link and watch the push up the middle by Atlanta



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqvilWfieR8
     
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  2. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    We missed Heyward badly in the AFCCG. With him healthy and Hargrave no longer a rookie, I think our interior pass rush will be much improved.

    Also - and it's a key point - if your outside rushers can both be handled by the offensive tackles 1 on 1, it allows the pass protection to bunch up in the middle, which was also a big factor. If your outside rushers force the offense to provide help to the tackles, it helps open up the inside. All great pass rushes have both inside and outside guys who can win 1 on 1 matchups. More than anyone, Bud needs to step up to help unclog the middle of the pass protection.
     
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  3. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    Very good point Steel Elvis. Here's an evaluation of Bud that explains he just isn't getting to the QB because he....1. isn't strong enough and .....2. isn't fast enough

     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  4. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I made a post earlier that I feel the pressure is on Heyward this year.

    ... because I'm starting the get the feeling he is injury prone.

    He is the leader on this team and he needs to be on the field. He needs to stay healthy so he can be the key cog in beating the Patriots.
     
  5. turtle

    turtle

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  6. thorn058

    thorn058 Well-Known Member

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    Bud is having a similar problem as Jarvis Jones did, he has an awesome burst and bull rush but trouble disengaging from the block and getting to the QB. He needs at least two more moves to really be a true edge rusher. Right now OT's are content to let him push them back because sometimes he goes right past the QB. Wolf was saying that he had been working on thrusting his off shoulder inside and trying a spin off that but it needed work. I think he will get a number of sacks this year if they bring Watt or Deebo off the edge and chase the QB into him if he can hold his edge.
     
  7. Steel4Blood

    Steel4Blood Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Defensive Line is the strongest and deepest it has been in years on this team.
    Everybody just needs to stay healthy!!!
    We have 3 pro bowl caliber players on this line. Tuit, Heyward, and Hargraves.
    IMO Shazier is the key to this defense.
    It reminds me of when Polamalu was the key to the defenses in the super bowl years.
    Shazier, i believe can be that kind of difference maker if he can stay on the field.
     
  8. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    The link leads to an article about Calvin Pryor being cut by the Browns. However I would question any writer who says that Bud isn't strong enough or fast enough. His physical ability is off the charts - literally one of the best combine performances in history in terms of size/strength/speed. His issue is harnessing that natural ability. He was super raw coming out of college, and hasn't yet put together the pieces in terms of technique. It's hoped that his work during the offseason with pass rush training specialist Chuck Smith will help. Chuck has helped several pass rushers, including Von Miller, develop their pass rushing moves. FWIW Smith predicted that Bud would be the NFL defensive player of the year. I'd be happy with him "just" being really good.

    Bud played very little in the preseason, so we don't yet know how much the offseason work has paid off. He did have that nice near-strip sack in the 1st quarter against Carolina.
     
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  9. Da Stellars

    Da Stellars Well-Known Member

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    My only critique of Bud is his arc around the tackle is still too large... He still tends to run way past the QB.

    You can't say he isn't fast or lacks strength... just go ask that Dolphins QB he lit up.
     
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  10. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Matt Moore still wakes up in a cold sweat at 3 AM reliving that hit.
     
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  11. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Well... wish I could add some things but Steel_Elvis already summed up much of what I was going to say.



    I will say this though. Bud finally is showcasing he has an attack plan against opposing offensive tackles. That in itself is more than enough for me. T.J. Watt is essentially icing on the cake.
     
  12. pjgruden

    pjgruden

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    Since this has kind of devolved a bit into talking about pressure from Dupree, how hard is it for a player to switch sides? Could they potentially play Watt and Harrison at the same time and make one of them go to the left side? I know Harrison has occasionally roamed around the line, but I don't know the logistics of playing the mirror position a player usually plays.
     
  13. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    wrong link. I'm an idiot. Here's the right reference:
     
  14. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    The comparison to Jarvis Jones is a good one.
     
  15. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But I was expecting more. 0.5 sacks in 5 playoff games with no INTs or forced fumbles or fumble recoveries isn't enough for me.
     
  16. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    You take away the 3 step by having good CB'S . Teddy B said the same thing today he said it was like taking candy from a Baby playing Brady in loose zones . He said the Steelers must change if they want to win .

    I been saying the same thing for at least 5 years . You can't stop a 3 step drop if your DB'S are in another zipcode. It's really simple to even have a threat to take it away you have to get up on the los . With no man capable CB'S this can't be done.

    Take away the space and then we will see what type of push we can get ? Heck if I was a DL and knew my CB'S where 10 yards off the ball I would just start waving my hands in the air ,doing jumping jacks or something. Better chance to knock it down than get to the QB in 2.0 seconds .
     
  17. BURGH43STEL

    BURGH43STEL Well-Known Member

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    The problem is people seem to believe that a team must have one coverage over the other to be successful. The real key is how a defense performs as a unit. The pressure applied up front must work in sync with the coverage provided by the secondary and LB's (pass coverage isn't simply about how well the DB's perform).

    Exclusively playing man coverage has it's draw backs. It's a league where QB's will eventually find an open WR if given enough time regardless if the coverage is zone or man.

    The Steelers don't have a problem winning games with their philosophy. A lot of teams had the Tom Brady problem for a lot of years. The teams that gave Brady the most problems over the years were teams that brought pressure quickly. Another key to defeating the Pats will be the Steelers offenses ability to raise it's game by producing points. Brady is going to generally lead his offense on scoring drives.
     
  18. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    Teams that give Brady problems also happen to be teams that have at least 1 capable CB. The jets always gave Brady problems because the coverage forced Brady to wait for separation and that allowed the pressure to get there. Even if Bud Dupree was the fastest OLB in the league, he isn't going to even come close to getting a hit on Brady when receivers are unopposed for the first 7 to 8 yards off the line. A good rush will make your coverage better and any QB with time will beat most coverages including man to man but even the best D-line and fastest LBers will not get to a QB when there are wide open receivers 2 seconds after the snap. The CBs we have need to play 8-10yds off the LOS in order to not get beat deep and if you watch them you'll notice that as soon as the receiver releases they immediately go into a back pedal so they maintain that 10 yd cushion and for a good QB it is pitch and catch 2 seconds after the snap. P.Manning was the same way, and he would get very shaky with man coverage schemes because it forced him to hold the ball and wait for the separation to occur and once he got hit a few times he would make throws way to early and struggle, watch the SB when the Broncos played the Sea Hawks, they forced him to make throws early because the defense was in man coverage and they were covered well enough that it took more than 3 seconds for them to get enough separation. A good pass rush with pressure up the middle is useless against good QBs when the DBs are incapable of covering receivers inside of a 5 yard cushion and none of the DBs on this team were capable. Burns might be ok with a good pass rush and while Haden's best days are behind him, he is a big upgrade to what we had.
     
  19. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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  20. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    The Chiefs played press man coverage very well against the pitty pats and packed the middle:

    NFL.COM
    The Chiefs packed the middle of the field, forcing Brady's throws to go to the boundaries, often unsuccessfully. Brady completed 16 of 36 passes for 267 yards and no touchdowns.
     
  21. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    can vince williams handle the coverage or would we be better served using fort and shazier against the likes of them? they had LB'ers doing a lot of coverage last night. i do like our front 3 if we use the 3 man rush like KC did. :cool:
     
  22. WinTheNorth

    WinTheNorth Well-Known Member

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    This is also what Atlanta did for the first part of SB51.
     
  23. PWP

    PWP Well-Known Member

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    As I stated exactly what Teddy B said on ESPN .If you want to beat them you have to press on the edge . Again his words it's like taking candy from a baby playing a loose zone .

    This is why Ross is gone.Do we have enough talent to do it now ?I am not sure ,but we are better than we used to be . I hope the Coaches start calling more press so these guys can get good at it as the season goes on .

    We will see starting this week if we play press I think we can hold the Browns very well , if we play that loose zone I expect Kizer to carve it up .
     
  24. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    I dont sweat Kizer at all, he hasnt seen a starting defense since he was drafted, he will most likely stare down his receivers and get suckered into bad throws and they should put a spy on him like lebeau did against RG3 and Colt Mcoy to keep him in the pocket....
     
  25. SteelCity_NB

    SteelCity_NB Staff Member Mod Team

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    anigif_enhanced-17436-1432946043-8.gif
     
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