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Pump the brakes on Rudolph worship

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Watt Wack, May 10, 2018.

  1. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    1st of all, I never heard any pundits claim he was a first round type prospect; he has some skills but certainly is not without concerns, such as...

    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mason-rudolph?id=32462018-0002-5599-4271-c09bf8338e3c

    Weaknesses
    • Over-strides at times
    • Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float
    • May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows
    • Field-side outs will be a challenge
    • Needs throws to stay on schedule
    • Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs
    • Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver
    • Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket
    • Ball will come out wobbly at times
    • Inexperienced as rollout passer
    • Benefitted from ball-winning targets downfield
    • Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense
    • Has had ball security issues as a starter
    Sources Tell Us

    "If you spoke with ten different scouts you would get at least four different opinions about him. I've just seen too many of those system quarterbacks struggle to make it in the league so I'm hesitant to buy in. He has gotten better this year." -- NFC team regional scout
    --------------------------------

    He is not a Big Ben-level prospect. BB has a stronger arm who can throw deep outs; this guy does not. I have heard a myriad of times that one of the most-revealing factors of if a QB can excel in the NFL is if they have the arm strength to complete 20-yard outs. If not, Ds can strangle the offense since they don't have to worrying about covering those routes.

    RM may turn into an average QB, but he is a system QB. Most of them don't end up thriving in the NFL but some do (Rogers). But no one will mistake MR's arm for Rogers; it's not even close.
     
  2. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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  3. turtle

    turtle

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    I would pump the brakes on the MR critiques :lolol:. Seriously though a lot of the draft prospect overviews listing the strengths/weaknesses are way polarized. Meaning they see a guy do something once or twice and all of a sudden he "lacks focus catching the ball" for example. I've seen it a lot when reading those and looking at these guys or following their career through school. They then gloss over when they see the same play and he completes the catch (to use the same example).

    I've even seen the same thing listed in the strenghts and weakness lists. For example: Strength - has lateral agility to make a defender miss. Weakness - rarely evades a tackle. I usually don't put too much into the overviews unless it is emphasized several times....needs to gain strength, man-handled at the line, cannot extend arms, etc.

    As for the system QB part, what if when Ben leaves, RF actually uses MR's strengths and changes the offense to meet his player. When you have red paint, you paint the barn red. Just because Ben plays one way doesn't mean we are stuck in that offensive style.
     
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  4. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    What the heck are you thinking? The quarterback who isn’t playing is always better.
     
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  5. LoneGranger

    LoneGranger Well-Known Member

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    1st of all, I never heard any pundits claim Joe Montana, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and certainly not Kurt Warner were first round type prospects. Show me a pundit with a really good, not outstanding, just really good record of selecting draft talent. You can't. We will see how the kid does, pundits be damned.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  6. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Google. I’m not real tech savy but this is a good source of information. I typed in “Mason Rudolph First Round” and quickly found a half dozen articles. Research can be your friend. Although, I don’t agree with the pundits who claim he was a first round type prospect.
     
  7. TheTerribleOwl

    TheTerribleOwl Well-Known Member

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    I didn't realize that people were worshiping Rudolph.
     
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  8. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    Not anymore, we were told not to.
     
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  9. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    Look ....there only one Rudolph who's intangibles and skill set that I worship .....the other one has to prove it to me first....:hehehe:
     
  10. TheMatrixHasYou

    TheMatrixHasYou Well-Known Member

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    You only posted his weaknesses. Every college player has strengths and weaknesses.

    After we drafted him I watched a couple game tapes on him and I will address the weaknesses:

    1) Overstride: the only time I saw him over stride was when he had to put some zip on the ball. He elongates his stance and winds the ball up a bit and it does take slightly longer for him to release. I think he needs to be more consistant with his throwing motion.

    2) Rarely drives lower body causing the ball to sail and float: That's his style of passing. He throws lobs, not because he doesn't have the arm strength but because he is USED to throwing it that way and he is VERY accurate with it but he does need to throw the ball on more of a line.

    3) Arm strength: this is all 100% bs. He can throw deep and he is very accurate but he is used to throwing lobs that put the ball only where the WR can get it.

    4) Field side outs will be a challenge: Once again, he likes to throw a lob pass and he does need to put it on a line.

    5) Needs throws to stay on schedule: This is correct because he likes to lob his passes so he has to have his timing down perfectly but we have years to work on him getting his passes on a line.

    6) Defaults to off platform throws when he has time to step and deliver: What does Ben do when plays break down? He improvises, well so does Rudolph.

    7) Ball placement and decision making not great when forced to run from the pocket: At times but not always. I saw him miss some easy throws and make some throws under pressure. Is this any different from any NFL QB?

    8) Ball will come out wobbly at times: I never saw it but I only watched two games. Sounds a lot like Ben.

    9) Inexperienced as rollout passer: Maybe that's so. The two games I watched his offensive line usually gave him a lot of time so he didn't have to rollout.

    10) Benefitted from ball winning targets downfield: Not what I saw. On one play the pass was intercepted because the TE did not battle for the ball but they had a huge lead late in the game anyway. He had good WR's but they were not Randy Moss good.

    11) Wasn't asked to go through progressions: I saw him mostly throw to his first read. On rare occasions, usually when a play broke down, he could make a play but honestly he didn't have to very much because his OL played well.

    12) Has had ball security issues: I didn't see any ball security issues but even Ben fumbles sometimes.

    And since you didn't post his strengths:

    Strengths

    Great size and stands tall in the pocket giving him his true height as a passer

    Does a good job of letting routes develop and wide receivers clear traffic

    Slides in pocket for clean launch points and is rarely a static target for rushers

    Keeps eyes trained downfield when sliding around pocket

    Got rid of the ball quicker and cut his sacks this year

    Willing to throw in front of safeties and attack over top of linebackers in intermediate portion of field

    Has steadily improved each season and showed full command of the offense this year

    Saw 10 percent of his dropbacks turn into 25-plus yard completions

    Puts air under his deep throws and gives receivers a chance to make plays

    Reads safeties and moves to his progressions accordingly

    Ran zone reads around endzone and finished with 17 rushing touchdowns during career

    Willing to drop his head and go get what he needs
     
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  11. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your thoughts. I hope you're right. I still worry about arm strength on 20 yard outs.
     
  12. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    For what it’s worth, Bradshaw didn’t throw out patterns. He once said the field goes north and south not east and west.
     
  13. NY STEELERFAN

    NY STEELERFAN Well-Known Member

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    Didn't anyone hear, Ben is gonna play for 6 more years no worries about another QB......:roflmao:
     
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  14. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    It's a top secret club.;):cool:
     
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  15. CK 13

    CK 13 Well-Known Member

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    Pump them Brakes.gif
     
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  16. BK99

    BK99 Well-Known Member

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    Normally I'd complain but I'll give you a few reasons why I like the Rudolph pick. I watched a few different interviews of him (didn't think he'd last to 28 honestly)and I thought it was very telling when a lot of analysts thought the Steelers would be his best fit.

    The main thing everyone likes is his timing and placement on deep throws and touch passes. That along with good accuracy from the pocket is why I think he will turn out as a good pick. I watched Joshua Dobbs struggle, and struggle bad when it came to deep throws and touch passes and it was that way the entire preseason.

    I know this is all speculation, you get the Tom Brady's and Antonio Brown's that go in the 6th round and are HOF bound and you have even more guys like Jarvis Jones who go in the 1st and flame out badly. The only thing we can hope for is that the first 5 picks succeed, especially the 1st round guy otherwise we will look bad on defense again.
     
  17. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    :popcorn:
     
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  18. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, you can't rely too extensively on critics evaluations. Most of the critics are limited in their ability to evaluate. What I mean is this...if someone like Gruden lists a QB's strengths and weaknesses, I take their opinion with a grain of salt. If someone like Manning or Brady were to list their strengths and weaknesses, I would value that a little more. Kind of like getting financial advice from MC Hammer vs. Bill Gates. I might listen to Hammer and go, "Uh, yeah I hear what your saying Hammer, but I think I will try something else." Where as, "Thanks Bill, I think I will follow your advice since you make about 300,000 times my minimum wage...in one day!"
     
  19. jeh1856

    jeh1856

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    It’s friday :drinks:
     
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  20. Steel4Blood

    Steel4Blood Well-Known Member

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    And this is what scouts said about AB

    [​IMG]

    Take anything Scouts say with a grain of salt!
     
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  21. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    I don't like Wacks Watt's tone lol
     
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  22. TheMatrixHasYou

    TheMatrixHasYou Well-Known Member

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    You should watch this highlight tape:

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=Awr9Ciurs_VawUgAzTdXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0NjZjZzZhBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=mason+rudolph&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t&guccounter=1#action=view&id=15&vid=cad7418304a6620cd4a1c389f51d3b6b

    His arm strength is fine. He's throwing the ball 40 yards at times. You're just listening to the critics and you're only reading the negatives. Rudolph can put some zip on the ball when he has to. In the red zone he always fires it in to the WR.

    On deep passes and sometimes even on sideline passes he puts way too much air under the ball. He throws lobs or jump balls a lot because he trusts his WR's to go and get it. On really deep passes he throws it over the DB's and ahead where only his faster WR has a chance at it. He trusts his WR to out run the DB and in the games I watched it worked a lot. He's very accurate with that deep lob pass but he's going to have to change it and start putting passes on more of a line. In the NFL the DB's are just too fast but he has time to work on that.
     
  23. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess if rudolphs negatives are bad that leaves us with only two QBs ben and LJ because dobbs has big red flags as well......

    Dobbs doesn’t pass the eye test on Saturdays as a great quarterback, and there aren’t many guys winning games on Sundays who weren’t exceptional college quarterbacks. Dobbs was average in terms of accuracy on intermediate passes and can get baited into poor throws into coverage. His lower-body mechanics need a ton of work, as he’s too often over-striding and leaving his legs unbalanced and off target when throwing. Without having a rocket arm, Dobbs isn’t able to deliver off-platform throws on the money nor thread the needle. His decision-making has been unimpressive.
     
  24. Watt Wack

    Watt Wack Well-Known Member

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    20 yards downfield is hardly east and west - bubble screens are. 20 yards may not be "chunk yardage" but it's not chicken scratch either. Almost every "expert" says one of the key indicators in evaluating if a QB is NFL material is if he has the arm to throw 20 yard outs.
     
  25. thesteeldeal

    thesteeldeal Well-Known Member

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    image.jpeg I don't care what anyone says.....Santa ain't pumping his brakes....this kids got a bright future...
     
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