POLL -- Lawrence Timmons' Pass Coverage Ability

Explanation:

So over the course of the season I've had a number of debates on multiple message boards with cajunyankee about Lawrence Timmons. The specifics of the debates have ranged on a wide number of subjects -- just about every part of Timmons' game. His latest claim is that Timmons is very bad in coverage. Not even average, but indeed awful. I don't feel like digging up exact quotes, but he's been relentless and has said he "can't cover crap." Cajun, this is not intended as a dig at you or anything like that. I am just simply astonished at your repeated claims that Timmons is terrible in coverage. I feel it is something he does very well. This is such an enormous conflict of opinion that I really want to hear other Steeler fans weigh in. I'll make my case for Timmons' coverage skills in the post below.

NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER YOUR FEELINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF TIMMONS' GAME WHEN ANSWERING THIS POLL. NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK OF HIS TACKLING, BLITZING, RUNNING, WHATEVER, PLEASE LIMIT YOUR ANSWER TO YOUR OPINION OF HIS COVERAGE SKILLS. THANK YOU!

Feel free to offer a comment or explanation below.

 

My argument for Timmons' coverage is this: he is not constantly burned all the time like Foote used to be, or like Farrior is starting to be. When he has a normal opponent to cover he shuts him down effectively. The rest of the time, he is often given a difficult task because he is the most athletic linebacker we have, and indeed one of the most athletic in the league. People talk about his "untapped potential," but I think this is one area where it's tapped. He's frequently given the task of covering the Antonio Gateses, Ray Rices, Jermaine Greshams, and Vernon Davises of the world. Sometimes he gets beat, but remember those guys are mismatches for any linebacker in the league! (Gresham is getting there.) The fact that we have a LB that can cover players like that with any effectiveness at all means we can leave Troy at safety instead of wasting him on man-to-man TE coverage all the time.

Guys are complaining about him and Farrior getting beaten by Vernon Davis. Davis is faster than most WRs in this league. That's unfair. I said this at the time, but I don't think many people would complain if any of our linebackers were beaten by Michael Crabtree. Davis is faster than Crabtree, but people complain about that.

I'm not saying he's perfect. No one is. Ike Taylor has had his share of bonehead plays and busted coverages this year, and he was one of the best in the NFL all season. I think Timmons has been a dynamite coverage LB since he burst onto the scene as a nickel LB in '08, and his ripple effect is major, but forgotten.

 

I never questioned his coverage. If he knows who he has to cover down the field he does it quite well. Problem is I'm not so sure how well he has mastered this defense, sometimes before snaps he looks lost and out of place. He also is not a great pass rusher, he could stand to add this too his game.

 

this is about week 4 or 5 now that he is coming on finally this year. he hasen't looked good for the first part of the year and at times looked lost. something has clicked in his game lately.

 

Yeah...he's been playing his regular position...hahah

 

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yea, but he only played the other one for 4 games. before that he was nonexistant. he's been playing well lately and today may have been his best game of the year. that's how he played last year. i still like him blitzing up the middle, he was aweful effective with it last year. we lose that from him.

 

One vote for terrible, really!?

I voted for "good" as he has a little trouble covering the crossing routes (who doesn't) but does great on almost everything else. If his recognition skills ever catch up to his physical ability he'll be a force.

 

I agree with you.

 

Bumping this up to give the non-night owls a chance.

 

I haven't voted...yet, but I want to make sure everyone, and you hugesnack, know where I stand. I'm a HUGE Steeler fan and have been so since 72. On the other board 72 was part of my 1st SN and 58 was part of my 2nd SN and now its what it is. I quite often have a problem seeing things with black-n-gold glasses--- at least that's what del ( some of you know him) used to say about me.

I was also a huge fan of Timmons and really pimped him in my mock draft. I've defended him religously up until this year. He had a GREAT season, got paid big bucks ( 2011 cap hit was 5.3 mil and hold on to your seat---next year 2012 cap hit is 9.125mil) and then got fatter and slower, looks lost and can't cover TE & RB from your better teams. Anyone has any doubt just re-watch the games keying in on him. He was our 1st rd pick, #15 overall in the draft so he should be held to a higher standard than foote or farrior.

Look at the two ILB drafted near him that year, Willis and Beason, They are beast every year. Who wouldn't love to have either one of these two guys on our team?

There was once a debate over whether timmons should be ILB or OLB.....debate over in my opinion. In my opinion timmons should be an will in a 4-3 but lets move on. On this team defending the middle is his best position. He's big enough to tackle and take on pulling OG/FB. In fact I'd go as far as to say Timmons is our best tackler. If get gets his hands on you you're going down. He rarely misses on tackles. Blitzing up the middle is another strong suit for him. Other than these two attributes I just mentioned he's avg in everything else and that is unsatisfactory for a #15 pick 9million dollar man!! He makes more than James H. and if it came down to those two who'd you take?

Overall compared to other ILB he is slightly above avg and his coverage skills is below avg. He is full of potential, that's why he was drafted so high,potential, and many fans still see that potential over what he produces but problem is potential doesn't win rings, productions does and he needs to up his production because our other two ILB ( whose combined cap hit is 33% less than his) are aging.

Cajun-

 

I never meant to question your fanhood, only your scouting capability. I agree in our defense the debate about where he should play ended years ago. I never, ever thought he should be an OLB in a 3-4. OLB in a 4-3, sure, but that's an entirely different position and we are not going to be running a 4-3. If we do make that change while he's here, I wouldn't have a problem switching him to WLB.

Early in the season the defense was not itself. Not just Timmons, everybody. Later in the season he was out of position, playing OLB as #4 on the depth chart. Then he returned back to his position, and he's been getting better every week. All the stuff you're saying about Timmons, people were saying it about Woodley until week 4 or 5. Everyone has slumps, and his was while the rest of the team was also in turmoil and he was out of position. I see no evidence to say he's getting soft due to his contract, because he has a reputation of a guy with great character who gives great effort, just like Woodley. I also don't put as much emphasis on statistics as you do. Even for a middle linebacker, production can't be measured solely in tackle stats. There are a million variables to take into consideration, right down to the fact that our defense as a whole might not rack up as many tackles as other defenses. Which is not a bad thing, mind you.

He's improved steadily every year of his career, and last year he should have made the Pro Bowl. This year has been crazy all over the place, and although his "production" was down early, over the last 5 or 6 games he's played at that same level as last season. To me common sense says that after hitting a bump in the road, he's resumed the track he was on. Seems like a lot of other people are so "what have you done for me lately" that they will literally look at one game and decide who is good and who is bad ("I'll trade Timmons for Patrick Willis' backup right now!"). Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at things. Otherwise, wouldn't we have traded Ben for Flacco one week into the season?

 

Timmons plays the game as he is required and per the scheme. He does it at a high level. Some fans only look at stats (tackles, sacks, ints, etc) and judge the player. Beason and Willis have the stats, but really Beason is the only guy on that defense who is of that calibur. Both would not have the same stat on our team as the do with their teams in their systems. Both are great LBs and Navarro in SF is tremendous as well (they had a great draft that year).

For those who think he is not good in coverage, what LBs in the league are better??? Guys like V Davis can burn any defender in the league. Timmons holds his own. I am certainly happy to have him.

 

I voted below average. I am not a fan of Timmons. He has only ever showed flashes of potential which he has never lived up to. He never seems to be in the best position to make a tackle, he usually over pursues the play and 9 times out of 10 you can see his name on the back of his jersey when in coverage. In laymans terms, he is usually being beat down the field and is chasing the receiver. He has looked slower this year, out of shape and not very aggressive. Maybe he got "paid" and lost his desire to play for his team and his teammates. I think he should ride the pine and lets see what Sylvester has...maybe that will motivate him.

 

Hughsnack, I have no problem with you. I don't think you were questioning my fanhood and I didn't mean to lead you to think that.
I'm also not a big stat guy though I do at times look at them as most often they do tell a story, even though on occasion some stats can project things people want to see. My biggest thing is just watching the game. DVR and go back and re-watch. I'm no scout for sure. I like chalktalk and how they break down film. This week was really good about Troy. I've seen them show Timmons out of position and being beat early in the season which got me watching him more closely.

Maybe I'm just upset because I liked him so much and feel let down due to his lack of dominance which is what I expect out of him NOW. i don't want to hear any potential comments or excuses anymore. I just want to see him DOMINATE like he should. He was drafted to do that. He IS being paid to do that. Anything less than Greatness is unacceptable for me from him.

Cajun-

 

I voted for good in coverage....I think he does OK

 

I am torn on this topic too. (I haven't voted yet.) As I look at how great L. Woodley became (when healthy) as our #2 draft pick that year and think that our "LT" should be making more of an impact by now also, especially after getting paid last summer. I did feel that last week was his best game so far this year. Last year, I felt he could cover most backs out of the backfield. This year, up until now he just seemed a step behind on all plays and while trying to make tackles. I will need to think about this some more....

 

It's bad luck for Timmons that Woodley came in the same draft, because people see Woodley's success as Timmons' failure. Woodley was the steal of the draft, and if that draft were held again today, he'd be a top 5 overall pick. That's a steal, and has nothing to do with Timmons.

By that logic, Emmanuel Sanders is disappointment because Antonio Brown was taken 3 rounds later in the same draft. When he's on the field, Sanders is great, and where we got him in the 3rd was tremendous value. Yes, he's being outplayed by Brown, who is obviously even better value, but that shouldn't affect what we think of Sanders and if we call it a good pick. Neither of these guys have even reached their big 3rd year, generally when WRs really get the hang of things.

Also, if you're just wondering about Timmons' play in general, that's fine, but remember that this vote is for coverage ability only. I would say Woodley is good in coverage for a defensive end, but not for a linebacker. He has shown more than a guy his side should in coverage, but he's still not "good" at it overall. Timmons has him beat by a couple of light years in coverage.

 

Woodleys success vs Timmons lack of success is not the same as Sanders and Brown. Timmons was a first round draft pick and Woodley was a second round pick. Both of these picks are pretty high and should be a sure thing as far as success is concerned. However Timmons has not exhibited the same success as Woodley. This means to me that they had Timmons over rated on their board and Woodley too low, it happens, but Timmons is not performing like a first rounder and yet he is paid as if he is or has. Timmons in my opinion is bordering on 1st round bust. This doesnt mean he isnt good, but he isnt 1st round quality in my opinion when compared to other 1st round LB'ers that year.
By comparison, Sanders was a 3rd round pick and Brown was a 6th round pick. Any success out of these 2 picks would be great. Sanders has had some set backs injury wise and Brown has blown everyone away. Will Sanders ever be as productive as Brown? Lets hope so because if he is, we will have the best WR corp in the NFL by a long shot.

 

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not so sure about light years. woodley does outweigh him by 30 lbs. i don't think its physical ability either. timmons has that, it's more recognition, but that will come. remember farrior has been doing most of that for a decade. now levon kirkland was above average.

 

I'm not talking about pass coverage talent per-pound, I mean overall. Woodley's pass coverage skills overall are well below average. He doesn't even stack up against million year old Farrior, let alone Timmons. All I've ever seen him do is drop back into the lane in the flat to take away the 8 yard stop route. Got him a couple INTs and a TD. I will say he's got good hands.

I'm not complaining about Woodley's coverage. He's our rush LB; that's what he does. He's also excellent in run defense. He's good enough at dropping back into the lane as a surprise. But he's the LAST linebacker I would want covering anyone man to man, or dropping into a zone in the middle of the field. The only time I can remember him taking the middle zone was on that Fred Jackson screen that went for 70+ yards and he F'd up big time. But that's not really fair, since the fact that he messed up badly and it was a touchdown is probably the only reason I remember it. Maybe it's one light year, but it's not close. One's very good and one's not good at all.

Thanks to everyone who voted in the poll!

 

Timmons is a good linebacker. Not the spectacular one I was hoping for when we drafted him 15th overall. But if Foote can last in our system for 10 years I know he can. He has not lived up to that 15th overall draft pick. But I believe he will be good enough for the next 10 years or so. I think he will get there with a complete offseason. Timmons looked like he gained some weight this year. Probably because of no offseason and training camp. Farrior needs to recruit him for the extra work down in Florida with Gay and Taylor.

 

yea those two really are not the two to compare. that's not what woodley is about. i would however put harrison up against timmons in pass coverage, or farrior in his prime. timmons has yet to stack up to those two, but there's time. he will get more familiar with it. as they say it's a hard defense to master.

 

2007 First Round http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft

1 1 Oakland Raiders JaMarcus Russell QB LSU SEC
1 2 Detroit Lions Calvin Johnson† WR Georgia Tech ACC
1 3 Cleveland Browns Joe Thomas† OT Wisconsin Big Ten
1 4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gaines Adams DE Clemson ACC
1 5 Arizona Cardinals Levi Brown OT Penn State Big Ten
1 6 Washington Redskins LaRon Landry S LSU SEC
1 7 Minnesota Vikings Adrian Peterson† RB Oklahoma Big 12
1 8 Atlanta Falcons Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas SEC
1 9 Miami Dolphins Ted Ginn, Jr. WR Ohio State Big Ten
1 10 Houston Texans Amobi Okoye DT Louisville Big East
1 11 San Francisco 49ers Patrick Willis† LB Ole Miss SEC
1 12 Buffalo Bills Marshawn Lynch† RB California Pac-10
1 13 St. Louis Rams Adam Carriker DT Nebraska Big 12
1 14 New York Jets Darrelle Revis† CB Pittsburgh Big East
1 15 Pittsburgh Steelers Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State ACC
1 16 Green Bay Packers Justin Harrell DT Tennessee SEC
1 17 Denver Broncos Jarvis Moss DE Florida SEC
1 18 Cincinnati Bengals Leon Hall CB Michigan Big Ten
1 19 Tennessee Titans Michael Griffin† S Texas Big 12
1 20 New York Giants Aaron Ross CB Texas Big 12
1 21 Jacksonville Jaguars Reggie Nelson S Florida SEC
1 22 Cleveland Browns Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame Ind.
1 23 Kansas City Chiefs Dwayne Bowe† WR LSU SEC
1 24 New England Patriots Brandon Meriweather† S Miami (FL) ACC
1 25 Carolina Panthers Jon Beason† LB Miami (FL) ACC
1 26 Dallas Cowboys Anthony Spencer LB Purdue Big Ten
1 27 New Orleans Saints Robert Meachem WR Tennessee SEC
1 28 San Francisco 49ers Joe Staley† OT Central Michigan MAC
1 29 Baltimore Ravens Ben Grubbs G Auburn SEC
1 30 San Diego Chargers Craig "Buster" Davis WR LSU SEC
1 31 Chicago Bears Greg Olsen TE Miami (FL) ACC
1 32 Indianapolis Colts Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State Big Ten

11 Pro Bowlers are listed in green. Of those Pro Bowlers, I'd still take Timmons over at least 4 or 5 of them for our team. Out of all 32 players, Timmons is undoubtedly in the top 12, and one could easily make a case for the top 7 or 8. Out of the entire draft and UDFAs, when you include total steals like LaMarr Woodley, Pierre Thomas, and David Harris, Timmons still fits snuggly into spots 10-25, depending on what you think of him and a number of other players. By that I mean, I would bet that even a football expert that doesn't think much of Timmons would not rank him below #25 overall in this draft. And that's after 5 years of NFL tape, something no one has at the time of the draft.

This is not a failure, people. I know that we have drafted exceptionally well in the first round, and some of those picks are players that are better than their pick (Ben is top 3 at #1, Troy is the best at #16). But if you take a guy at #15 and 5 years later he turns out to be the 20th or 30th best player that year, and he's a good starter for you for a decade or more, that was a good pick. These guys aren't psychic. I know Timmons has the physical abilities to be even better, but it's not like we never see those come out. We just don't see it as much as we'd like. People were all excited for a linebacker version of Troy Polamalu, and he's just not that. If you stop looking at what you wanted and look at what you got, you might actually be happy with it.