Player development?

Could somebody tell me under MT era what draft picks other than first round
draft picks have been developed under his coaching staff? Thanks.

 

None! Zero! Nada, nyet!

 

According to the board, Mason Rudolph. The board said he sucked when we picked him, complained about him all through 2019, cursed the front office when they re-signed him in 2023, and now want him made Mayor of Pittsburgh when he won three games at the end of the season.

 

Mason Rudolph kept his head down and kept working even when he was relegated to QB3 behind two less talented QBs. He also attended off-season workout programs designed to make him a better quarterback even though he was underappreciated in Pittsburgh. Rudolph took his development into his own hands and has become better because of it. If he were relying on the likes of Mike Tomlin, Randy Ficthner and Matt Canada to help elevate his game, he would be out of the league by now.

 

That is what I thought.

 

No. You didn’t think. That’s how this thread came about.

 

There are so many that it would be impossible to list them.

 

Name 12, then name 12 more

 

AB
Highsmith
LeVeon
Diontae
Woodley
Mike Wallace
Tuitt
Marcus Gilbert
Dan Moore

 

Good list, I was guessing it was small, a fraction of all the drafted players. Not many players get better

 

Ab, JPJ, K. Benton, Cam Sutton, J. Hargrave, and Jaylen Warren just off the top of My head to go with @steelersrule6 list. I bet if You really dug....You could find a lot more.

 

How would a UDFA like Jaylen Warren fit into your player development theory?

 

I mentioned Him above.

 

big Al, fieler, nick herbig, foster, lil heyward.

 

Do you think the Steelers had to train him to get better?

 

Under the MT era? There's been plenty.... I'm a detractor of his as of late, but it is hard to say that we haven't developed players since 2007 outside the first round. Tomlin has his warts and deficiencies, but this is a ridiculous notion.

2007 - Lamarr Woodley (2nd), William Gay (5th) - Woodley developed into a really good player then got fat and lazy after he got paid. Gay became a great slot CB over time
2008 - Ryan Mundy (6th) - Was a fantastic 3rd safety that had multiple years as a starter post-Steelers. Great value for the 6th round
2009 - Mike Wallace (3rd) - Was better as a Steeler, but a very solid WR
2010 - Jason Worilds (2nd), Emmanuel Sanders (3rd), Antonio Brown (6th) - Worilds was a good player that retired early. Sanders lost out to the money game in Pitt, but was a great #2 for Denver. AB was likely the best WR in the league that was developed at home
2011 - Marcus Gilbert (2nd) - Turned into a solid starting RT.
2012 - Kelvin Beachum (7th) - Not too often you get a solid starting LT in the 7th.... enough said
2013 - Le'veon Bell (2nd), Vince Williams (6th) - Bell was an All-Pro stud and Bince became a hard nosed starting ILB in the league. Great value in the 6th.
2014 - Stephon Tuitt (2nd) - Excellent player. Turned into a really good one, with a very sad end to his career.
2015 - Jesse James (5th) - Became a really good complementary player who signed a good deal elsewhere. Long career for a guy who was taken in the 5th
2016 - Javon Hargrave (3rd), Tyler Matakevich (7th) - Hargrave developed into a stud and got priced out of the Burgh, while Matakevich developed from a late round flier into a core ST and solid BU LBer. Was still in the league last season.
2017 - JuJu Smith-Shuster (2nd), James Conner (3rd), Cam Sutton (3rd), Josh Dobbs (4th) - Juju was better in Pitt, but became a solid WR. Conner developed into a good starting RB, Sutton into a #1/#2 tweener, and Dobbs a quality BU QB. Great draft.
2018 - Mason Rudolph (3rd), Chukwuma Okorafor (3rd) - Mason developed into a solid BU, and Chuks is probably a low end starter somewhere in the league, or at least a very good swing T.
2019 - Diontae Johnson (3rd) - Diontae developed nicely in Pittsburgh. He is probably a low end #1 or a quality #2. Good player.
2020 - Alex Highsmith (3rd) - Developed into a great #2 pass rusher. Would be a #1 on a lot of teams. We squandered Dotson as he became a really good player that we played out of position.

I wont judge players after that just due to few number of years in the league. A lot of good quality players from outside the first round. Some became studs, some starters, and some integral depth pieces. Lots of wins outside the first round. This also doesn't encompass all the great players developed from a UDFA perspective (Warren, Hubbard, Foster, Villanueva, Feiler, etc.)

 

The better question should be what QB’s have developed under Tomlin? I think that is where he has been weak. But of course so much of this is about the position coaches. Look at the Oline. How many have we developed since we lost Munchack? I am not sold on our DC but I do think we have good position coaches at DL, CB and LB on that side. I think the Arthur Smith hire was good and we should see improvement on that side of the ball. We made a much needed change with the Wr position coach. Not sold on Pat Meyer at OL ... I think this is the year he has to prove himself.

 

No. That’s not a better question

 

Why? Under Tomlin only Pickett (1st), Oladokun (7th), Rudolph (3rd), Dobbs (4th), Jones (4th), and Dixon (5th) have been taken. Sure, Pickett sucked, but Rudolph and Dobbs both developed into reliable back up QB's while Jones, Dixon, and Oladokun never amounted to anything in the league. We have to remember that over 40% of top 10 picks bust out of the league at the QB position. Over 70% of 1st round QB's bust. We hit one of the 70%ers with Pickett, but we had 2/5 of our mid to late round picks carve a role out in the league. That's actually not too bad at all.

 

He took Ben from a game manager to a Hall of Famer. Think that counts as developing a QB.

 

Nice you make a comment with no explanation backing it up.

 

Was it him or was it Haley? Who has he developed besides Ben? What I am saying is look what they have done in SF with Purdy who is considered an inferior talent to Ben.

 

I don’t feel like we really developed any QB under Tomlin with the exception of Ben. I feel like Tomlin’s style can sometimes hamper the QB’s and at times not allow them to play with confidence. As important as it is to win the turnover battle if you stress it so much to the point you paralyze the QB because your in their head it isn’t a good thing. I think Tomlin or at least the last two Coordinators played so careful they got into the QB’s heads wether it was Rudolph. Pickett or Hodges. Even Ben regressed but his situation was understandable. I think you need a happy medium. It is so hard to evaluate who or what the issues are with so many moving parts. The good thing is we are finally solidifying the offensive line, we got a new OC and were going to focus on play action and the run game so you add in Wilson or Fields to the mix and it should be markedly better.

 

I think Bruce Arians and Haley did that. Tomlin left those guys do their job. With that being said on the flip side of the coin he let Canada and the OC before him do their job to which was not very good. So in honesty Tomlin didn’t really change it was the OC.

 

It is hard to say we didn't develop well when two mid round QB's turned out to be solid NFL back up QB's. Ben obviously. Someone like Hodges is such a long shot to even be on an NFL roster to begin with, it is hard to fault the Steelers' coaching for not turning him into an NFL mainstay (even as a back up). QB is just a volatile position. Guys bust out of the league at a high rate at the position, so instances like Landry Jones, Kenny Pickett, etc. will happen. It's the nature of the league.

Now, you make a solid argument that our last two offensive coordinators (Fichtner and Canada) have been utter dumpster fires for us. But good QB's would still be successful in those systems (even if at a lesser degree to their full potential).

I will agree that having an actual OC with NFL success will help. As will adding proven NFL capable QB's to the mix (Wilson past his prime, Fields trying to reach it). I do think the offense should be better than last year. It has to be, right? There really isn't much room to regress.