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Pickett/trubisky rotation?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by Mashburn, May 2, 2022.

  1. 86WardsWay

    86WardsWay Well-Known Member

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    Looking back 48 years to tell who was bust or boom seems a bit of a stretch to try and prove mock drafts. Why not dissect everything back to 1933? Nobody really knows how all these players are going to pan out thru their entire careers but if it makes you feel better to bark up some tree this early on then so be it.
     
  2. Karl

    Karl Well-Known Member

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    The thing about Willis is, he is a small school product.
    Physically, he has all the tools.
    But it will take some time to coach him up to the NFL level. (I think maybe 2/3 years but that's a guess - he could take to it rather quickly)
    He sits behind Tannehill who's coming to an end, so he got a very good team to go to.
    I can't predict what Willis' ceiling is, he may stink it up or he may be just the opposite.

    Pickette on the other hand, by some analysis, is the more NFL ready - which I agree with.
    Pickett should not be short changed.
    He can move the pocket very well and extend plays and has the arm to make things happen.
    He is not slow by any means.

    Were the Steelers going to take a QB at 20?
    To be honest, the draft could have gone much different.
    I am confident that the Steelers took several scenarios into consideration with their draft board.
    To be more honest, the Steelers definitely needed a QB.
    Mitch is a risk at best: Can he find the form that displayed so much promise? Or does he remain the same?
    I secretly root hard for Mason Rudolf; I like the kid. But I am also a realist - he has not stepped it to the next level.
    I am sure the Steelers were a little surprised when the draft went their way and saw Pickett there at 19. The decision got pretty easy.

    Who will be better?
    Willis is a higher risk with a learning curve that a team like the Titans can afford.
    Pickett is a lower risk with a much less learning curve, something the Steelers needed.
    Over the long haul, I 'think' you'll get more wins with Pickett.
     
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  3. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I said that some where, that the Steelers were going to draft a QB in the first whether it be Pickett, Willis or even Ridder. They were taking one regardless. So this they took Pickett in the first round must mean he is a first rd talent isn’t true.

    His play on the field will determine what his talent is, not where he was drafted. Likewise so will Willis, Ridder and the rest.


    I could see Pickett have a similar first season to Mac Jones but with more production from his legs. My whole concern with Pickett is not that he can be good but what his ceiling is. I don’t want him just good, I want him great.
     
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  4. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It was an easy reference, one that any Steelers fan should understand. You just don't like it because it proves my point.
     
  5. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Willis is a third-round talent. That much is inarguable at this point. That is where he was drafted. The rest is just people being stubborn.
     
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  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Post draft is much more likely to be accurate than pre draft. I think most people believe the Steelers were walking out of the first with a QB.

    Lot of people disagree with you about Willis abilities. We’ll know eventually.
     
  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    So Edmunds is a first rd talent after all.

    Willis was drafted in the 3rd, how he performs in the pros will determine his talent level.

    Again, I could care less where he was drafted, he’s not a Steeler and that I do care about if he goes on to be as good as I think he will be. Do you think I will be going, yeah but he was drafted in the 3rd, he’s only a 3rd rd talent. Come on man.
     
  8. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It isn't just about the ceiling. It is about the likelihood of the player reaching that ceiling. In the case of Willis, that likelihood is very low.

    I don't doubt that he has a great arm and he can run. I also know his decision-making wouldn't even cut it at the Power 5 level, much less the pro level. The same is true of his accuracy, with a completion percentage that was inflated by facing poor competition the last two seasons.

    Potential in a quarterback is more than a strong arm and quick feet. Way too many people are forgetting that. Clearly, NFL general managers did not. That is why Willis is a third-round draft pick. I would have been very happy if the Steelers had taken that risk in the third round, but not in the first.

    That's the thing about this argument. It's over. You lost. Willis wasn't a first-round pick. He wasn't even a second round pick. The Steelers were absolutely right to pass on him in the first round. That part is settled. Even if he does become something special, they were still right because he could have been drafted much later.

    My argument before the draft was never that they have to take Pickett if he's available in the first round. My argument all along was that they absolutely should not take Willis in the first round. I was right. There is only one relevant fact, that Willis was drafted in the third round, and that proves my point.

    Whether or not they were right to take Pickett is another matter. That remains to be seen.
     
  9. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    Brady and AB are 6th round talent. Russell Wilson is 2nd round talent. James Harrison is UDFA talent.
     
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  10. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    I am die hard Pitt fan, but I am also /was a competitor as I am sure Mitch Tribusky is.
    He wouldn't have gotten this far in his career if he was not. It is going/should be a competitive
    competition amongst all three QB's and may the best man win. I also believe/hope that during a possible bad stretch
    that our coaching staff would have the guts to sit down the player that maybe struggling. You would not
    have seen this in the Ben R years. Although should have been for a possible spark in that game.
     
  11. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    :lolol: You need to grow up, man. That stuff really is not important. I know its life and death to you but its not. No one cares, no one thinks about this post 5 seconds after reading it. It doesn’t matter.

    Nothing was proven other than the Steeles like Pickett the best. If Pickett was drafted before them they would have selected the next highest QB on their board, maybe that would have been Ridder, who knows.

    But if you want to keep score, we’ll have our answer about “who lost” in a year or two. I suspect Willis trajectory will be about the same as Jacksons so it will take a little while. Hopefully we aren’t talking about how we need to draft another QB next season.
     
  12. jeh1856

    jeh1856 Hello world

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    We upgraded QB substantially OL substantially defense …

    There is every reason this should be a good team this year
     
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  13. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Nice try. I'm sorry the facts bother so many of you .

    If you can acquire a player in the sixth round, it is stupid to draft him in the first. I'm stunned that so many of you are having trouble with this concept.
     
  14. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Funny that you think I'm the one taking things too seriously. I love posts that start like that, then go right into arguing. The irony does put a smile on my face.

    That said, your take on this situation is absolutely wrong. You can try to spin it all you like, but it is an inarguable fact that the Steelers were right not to draft Willis in the first round. The reason for this is they could have had him in the third. We know this. We have hindsight as proof. He was available when they picked in the third round.

    Sure, you could argue that if they passed on Pickett in the first, a team might have tried to jump in front of them later if they hadn't already drafted one, but that's a hell of a reach.

    Willis could become the greatest quarterback in NFL history and it wouldn't change the outcome of the argument. They could have had him in the third, so they were right to pass in the first.
     
  15. HeinzMustard

    HeinzMustard Well-Known Member

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    I get what you're saying... but it's also true that Ryan Leaf and JeMarcus Russell were 1st round talents.
     
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  16. KnoxVegasSteel

    KnoxVegasSteel Well-Known Member

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    I didn't like picking QB in 1st round in this draft class. That said, Pickett is clearly better that Rudolph when he came out. Mason is/was less accurate and always about a 1/2 second behind on his reads in college. That has carried into the NFL for Rudolph and hasn't been fixed which has become a big liability as an NFL QB. Not to mention, Rudolph has never been mobile. These guys are not similar.
     
  17. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    My highlighted parts of your last post prove you take this too seriously and that you get into these debates to “win” them. What do you win? Does TTF send you a present?

    The flaw in your argument is we don’t know how far Pickett falls if the Steelers hadn’t selected him, likewise who they would have selected in his place. Given how much they were enamored with Willis and Dulacs report of them having 4 first rd grades on QB’s, it’s a good chance they would have. Claiming you are right in the abstract is weak.

    Basically the Steelers are right when you agree with them and wrong when they don’t agree with you.

    And for the record, I thought Willis, Pickett, Howell and Corral were all going in the first rd. Got that wrong *GASP* oh nooooos whatever will I do now :lolol:
     
  18. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to fully get what I'm saying then. It doesn't mean that any first-round pick is justified because the player was taken in the first round. Honestly, the bashing the Chargers have taken over the years for Leaf gets a little ridiculous. Sure, he turned out to be a bad pick, but pretty much everybody had Leaf as one of the top two players in that draft. The rest is hindsight. It was easier to see that Russell might be a bust, but he was going to be taken high in the first round by some team.

    The point is that if we know a player fell to the third round, any team that passed on him in the first was right to do so. They were right in thinking that if they wanted him, they could get him later. They were right in concluding he was not worth a first-round pick.

    People can use all the spin they want. They can play all the games they want. Those of us who insisted that the Steelers should pass on Willis in the first round were right. That argument is settled among anybody who is willing to look at it reasonably. We know he fell to the third. The Steelers were right not to take him in the first.
     
  19. Brice

    Brice Well-Known Member

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    Funny, This has about as much of a chance as Tomlin allowing Benny Snell to split carries with Najee.
     
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  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that really doesn't prove what you think it means, but do you see the irony in arguing with the way you are while saying I'm taking this too seriously? I like to argue. So do you. If you don't care about winning or losing the argument, why are you trying so hard to spin things after the draft proved you wrong about Willis?

    It really is that simple. You thought Willis should be taken in the first round. He wasn't. In fact, he fell a long way to the third.

    Sure, Tomlin seemed to like Willis. He seems to like many players. I'm sure he liked him as a third or fourth-rounder just fine. You fell for a smokescreen. Honestly, I fell for it, too. I was concerned that they might take him that high even though I was convinced it was a bad idea.

    There is no abstract here. I said the Steelers should not take Willis in the first round. They didn't. They were right. We know they were right because he fell to the third. Everything else is spin on your part.
     
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    It’s a message board, people debate, It’s not to win anything. Debating and arguing are different things, you like to argue, thats why you try to get under peoples skin and get them riled up. These last few responses you have made an attempt to keep that out of your replies and I appreciate that, what we are doing now is debating, that I like. I don’t like arguing over a computer, it’s frustrating because I’d likely dump you on your ass if you talked to me like you usually do in person.

    It is abstract, just like how you declare the Steelers were wrong for keeping Dobbs because of the Raiders game he came in for relief. You say that even know Landry could have come in and performed just as poorly.

    Given how QB needy teams passed on Pickett it is very likely he would have fallen out of the first along with the rest of them. The reports about this being a weak QB class were dead on. Picketts is not head and shoulders above the rest, he wasn’t even regarded as the best prospect in almost every ranking.

    You should be more concerned that the Steelers reached then being “right” over draft position.
     
  22. forgotten1

    forgotten1 Well-Known Member

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    Chris Oladokun says

    "Hold the train. Step aside guys. Coming through. Sit and learn fellas."
    "This is how you do it!"
     
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  23. SteelHack

    SteelHack Well-Known Member

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    I get what you are saying.. he went in the third therefore he is just worth a third.... but then you say everyone rift JaMarcus was a high one. It that Pickett was the only one worth a one. Your debate seems to shift back and forth depending on which hypothetical is being discussed

    Is Pickett a first rounder? Of course he was picked in the first

    But every team that picked a QB in the 3rd passed on him... so by that logic they at least had him as a 2nd round grade? Or maybe they just had other players rated higher?

    The Steelers were pretty open about taking s QB first.. that plus Dulacs confirmation that they had multiple first round grades on the QBs. You say they got it right with Pickett and would have been wrong with Willis. But it's really obvious they were taking a QB... they told us. Colbert told us. I feel it's safe to say there would have been just as good a chance that the Steelers took another QB if Pickett was gone as it is Pickett lasts to the 2nd or 3rd of the Steelers don't take him.

    You didn't think Willis was worth a first....I didn't think any of them worth a first. Only time will tell their true worth. The Bears took Trubisky 2nd... no one else did... the Bills thought he was a nice backup

    The Steelers had a first round grade on Pickett they also had one on Mason.

    The Browns thought Baker was worth the first overall pick.. then just a few years later were willing to give up 3 first round picks to get rid of him. By your argument the Brownsv were right. Baker would never last till the 2nd pick. But even the Browns are saying whoops.. gave up 1 to get him and 3 to get rid of him.

    You said if you use a time machine you could get Brady in the 5th. But that's not a fair evaluation. If everyone got to use the time machine you would have to take #1 overall. You can't be the only one with super powers and hindsight.. then say they were right he is just another 6th rounder

    My point is only time will tell. Sometimes you are proven right Sometimes you are proven wrong

    HACK
     
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  24. SteelerJJ

    SteelerJJ Well-Known Member

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    I like Pickett but the great ones are rare. He was drafted at about the same place as Mark Malone. He is more likely to be Malone than Ben, serviceable and sometimes really good depending on the talent around him. He was no more of a risked draft pick than Edwards, Jarvis, Stephens... Roll the dice and hope to get really lucky.
     
  25. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    The Dobbs thing was more subjective. This is not. Willis was taken in the third round. The Steelers would have been fools to spend a first-round pick on a player they could have had in the third. This isn't subjective at all.

    Your point about Pickett, however, is unsupported speculation. Passing on Pickett in the top 20 or even in the teens is not the same as letting him fall to the second round. I don't accept your premise that they reached. Also, I have made it very clear that my preference would have been to take Hill or Linderbaum in the first round and draft a quarterback later, though I don't mind the Pickett pick. I am just happy they didn't reach for Willis two rounds too early.
     

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