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PFF ,and Coaches

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by S.T.D, Jun 7, 2022.

  1. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    I think they also had horrendous injury luck in the playoffs in 2015-16 when one or both of AB or Bell were injured for crucial games. The offence was built around those two.

    The embarrassing playoff losses to the Jags in 2017 and the Browns in 2021 are serious indictments on Tomlin however, they were winnable games and he didn’t have his guys focused and ready.
     
  2. Steelresolve

    Steelresolve Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know. Were we honestly loaded as a team overall? In 2017 we were loaded on offense but are defense was terrible. We lost Shazier that year and the defense completely fell apart. Based on Shazier’s injury I am sure that had a major impact on the team the rest of the year. I don’t know a single coach that could overcome that. We just didn’t have the defensive talent after Shazier went down he was the glue. By 2021 Ben was a shell of himself. I had very little expectations for the Steelers that year. In all honesty the Browns were clearly superior in talent ... they should have won. Was it Tomlin fault the Pouncey snapped the ball of over Bens head that day? Teams are so evenly matched anymore in the NFL it only takes one play to impact the outcome of the game. After being down by 7 points early I believe Ben tried to do more than required and forced a couple of turnovers and after that we were playing catch up. Our offensive line was on its last legs then as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. SteelersFanIrl

    SteelersFanIrl Well-Known Member

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    Brown’s were absolutely crippled with covid and injury going in to that game in 2021. There really was no excuse for the performance at any level. The players must shoulder some of the blame naturally but Tomlin has to be culpable as well.

    2017 they were one of the best teams in the NFL, if not the best. The only regular season game they didn’t win after week 5 was the Jesse James non-catch fiasco, which they really should have won. The defence and secondary in particular was a weakness without a doubt, but no team is stacked at every position on both sides of the ball.

    The Shazier injury was a killer that year but one player getting injured cannot be used as an excuse, every team deals with injuries and you just have to work around them. Without doing any detailed analysis I’d guess that many teams that win the Super Bowl lose a key player along the way.
     
  4. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    Well if Lindseyok thinks so then it must be true. :rolleyes: Seriously, what is up with the random tweets you post lately? Besides being an attractive women, why should I take her football opinion seriously? Her bio lists her as a retired ballerina. I would take Benny Lava's opinion more seriously.
     
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  5. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Losing Shazier crippled them, the defense revolved around having that type of speed and talent and they didn’t remotely have anyone that could fill that void. You can blame coaching for designing a defense that way but there is no doubt that injury was devastating to them.

    Actually, she agrees with you, she was questioning the list.
     
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  6. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    I understand she agrees. That wasn't my question.
     
  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I thought you were thinking she agrees with the list and you don’t so why should you listen to her.

    Lot of savvy women football fans out there. By the way, BennyLava is a woman, too ;)
     
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  8. TuRnDoWnForWaTT

    TuRnDoWnForWaTT Well-Known Member

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    Lots of savvy women fans for sure. I wasn't slighting her for being a women fan. I was pointing out that not everyone with a twitter feed is a respected journalist. It seems like more and more of these random tweeters are being retweeted here. Maybe I'm just getting old.
     
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  9. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    She has covered the NFL for a while, I'm not sure if she still does.
     
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  10. Steelresolve

    Steelresolve Well-Known Member

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    Not many teams lose a key player and advance to the Super Bowl. Just one example. 1976 Steelers had one of the most dominant defenses of any era. They were considered their best team out of all of the their teams during the dynasty years and yet they lost Franco and Bleir for the AFC Championship game against the Raiders. They got blown out by the Raiders. Does that mean Chuck didn’t have them prepared or he was a bad coach? Looking just at last year, the Bengals were the healthiest team in the whole NFL going into the post season and they advanced to the Super Bowl. Injuries play a huge factor at the end of the season. Shazier’s injury absolutely devastated the Steelers team that year. The emotional tool alone was impactful beyond what we even know. I will agree with you on the 2021 game against Cleveland, we did come out very flat but I also feel that game was poorly played by Ben. When you give up that many turnovers early in a game it is very hard to overcome and we were definitely trending down talent wise with Ben and the offensive line. Again what has Belicheck done without Brady pre and post? Lets see how Mcvhay and some of these other coaches do without a franchise QB or with the albatross of a franchise QB salary and having to play with lesser talented positions on the rest of the team as a result. Even Cowher who is highly respected by this fan base couldn’t win the Super Bowl until he got Ben (on the cheap with his rookie contract). Tomlin took them to two Super Bowls and won one. When Bens salary grew in his later years it hamstrung the organization from a team building perspective. How many Coaches on that list have won more SB or been to more? Funny how it is all just about the last five years.

    I don’t understand some of the logic of the original list other than to get clicks. Some logic makes sense such as maybe a coach has won in the past with a Franchise QB and then he had success again with another QB or even without his Franchise QB. Some examples of coaches having success in such a way our

    Reid
    Harbaugh
    even Mcarthy but yet he inherited both teams and both Franchise QB’s. So what has he really done.

    Bellicheck is a no brainer he won the most Super Bowls but still he hasn’t done anything outside of Brady.

    Shannahan is interesting to me because he has had success without the franchise QB.

    LeFluer, Kingsbury and Carrol have done exactly what without a Franchise QB. Two of these guys haven’t even won a SB.

    Reich and Vrabel have had success but again no SB and the Titans whom were favored last year laid an egg in the playoffs. Tannehill played terrible. Do you blame the coach in such a situation or the QB? I guess we only blame the coach if it is Tomlin. Reich made a terrible trade for a supposed franchise QB the didn’t work out. Plus the Colts imploded at the end of last season.

    I believe if Tomlin proves to have success without Ben he will shoot way up this list. I feel he is being judged as winning with Cowhers teams and poor playoff performance in the last five years. Those are easy judgments. You have to look into the resasons why and dig deeper. Sad they judge Tomlin so critically yet are significantly more lenient with some of these other coaches.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. nor

    nor Well-Known Member

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    It's been approximately 1971 days since the steelers have won a playoff game.

    Mike Tomlin has gotten two pay raises since then.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. FootballAnalyst98

    FootballAnalyst98 Well-Known Member

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    Harbaugh is top ten. Him at 2 while I wouldn't agree isn't as big of a hyperbole as Kingsbury and Mccarthy being top ten coaches. How is Kingsbury and Mccarthy better then mcvay?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I agree on this. It's Harbaugh at 2 that I don't agree with. No F**king way He's 2.
     
  14. DJ18Baller

    DJ18Baller Well-Known Member

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    Guy has won 3 playoff games in 12 years but is a top 10 coach?? :roflmao:

    All with a HOF QB to boot.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. RobertoC#21

    RobertoC#21 Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin has never had to start a season without a franchise QB. His "never having a losing record" is directly tied to never not having a HOF QB. I will be impressed with Tomlin as a coach if he can win without a HOF QB. Ben is the only player I am aware of to never have played on a team with a losing record. No one else can say that, so is it Tomlin or is it Ben?
     
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  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    He had them in playoff contention with Rudolph and Duck under center. A losing streak to end the season knocked them out of contention but still finished 8-8.

    Also Ben last year was pretty awful.

    In years past, Ben was a very big part of the reason for not having a losing season but Tomlin as he showed the year they didn’t have Ben deserves credit for that too. There are HOF QB’s that have losing seasons on their resume.
     
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  17. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time that HOF QB played like one in the playoffs :shrug:?
     
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  18. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    2017.
     
  19. SteelerGlenn

    SteelerGlenn

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    I’m not upset. I’m just SMH at your endless political comments. Actually you’re the one that seems pretty offended and triggered.
    Take Blasts advice and turn off the News. You’ll be happier.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Animus

    Animus Well-Known Member

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    I was really on the get rid of Tomlin bandwagon.... and then... 2019 happened. To go 8-8 with Duck and Mason that year was simply remarkable. And despite how terrible this team looked, most of the season (last year), they somehow finished 8-8-1 in the process. Tomlin just find ways to win, despite the quality of the team on the field. Credit definitely goes to Ben as well, but Tomlin CANNOT be dismissed as a factor for the team's lack of losing seasons during his tenure thus far. At the same time, there's times when I was MFing this and MFing that after various decisions at key moments and we can't dismiss the fact that they haven't won a playoff game in 5 years and only 3 playoff games since the last SB victory.
     
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  21. jeh1856

    jeh1856 That was my bed

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    Quite eloquent :smiley1:
     
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  22. Dudley35

    Dudley35 Member

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    How did Matt LaFleur get in there?
     
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  23. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I agree with a lot of this, but We went 9-7-1 last year. :thumbs_up:
     
  24. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, after the team fell behind 21-0 :shrug:, how about getting off to a fast start.
     
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  25. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    He has won 13 games each of his first three years in Green Bay.
     

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