P.Manning, and T.Brady are over rated!

I was at a friends house and we were watching some old games he had recorded and just got them all put onto DVD. I was watching the game that brought about the 5 yard chuck rule and that is when I thought there is no way Peyton is the greatest QB ever, he is good but they changed the rules to make him great. It was an eye opener watching the Patriots knocking the colt recievers off their routes and mess with the timing and watching Manning throw the ball to nobody. Peyton is pure finesse and the whole offense is timing and pattern related, Ben is really good when plays break down, Peyton is a mess when those things happen and I think that the colts inabilty to get by NE in the playoffs along with the fact that the patriots put a blueprint out on how to beat the colts that the rules had to be changed if he was ever going to win a SB. I watched the playoff game were Kemo van Olhoffen took out Carson Palmer during a play in which he completed a long pass and it looked as if the secondary was going to have a bad day. It happened and yet there was no rule about hitting a QB low until it happened to Tom terrific, and now he plays in a zone of no fear of stepping up to deliver the ball knowing who ever trys to lay him out will get penalized and fined, how much better can a QB play knowing he can't get hammered on? I watched a lot of football and it seems rule changes only benefit these two teams, maybe I'm paranoid but how many times did QBs get hit low and nothing even when injured? How many recievers got roughed up or pushed running a route during a play and yet nothing? But as soon as the talk turned that Manning will end up like Marino and be the best QB not to win a SB, the rules changed, heck they even called an interception by Troy an in complete pass trying to help the guy. So, am I paranoid? Or do others think rule changes are made to benefit certain teams or players.

 

Great Scott, Ive never heard this theory before!

 

The rules were changed to benefit certain people. The owners are the big winners ( and I guess through income sharing the players). Scoring drives ratings and ratings drive TV money. Owners and players get more TV money so they are happy. Get used to the new face of the NFL because it isn't going to change any time soon.


P.S. Manning and Brady are two of the best ever to take a snap under center. Thinking otherwise is pure homerism, it demeans you, your team and the league.

 

Wow. Manning and Brady are good because they don't have fear of being hammered? Really?

 

Brady benefits from an organization that cheats. Period. I could succeed as QB if I knew what the defense was calling. he is an overrated hack, just like his cheating coach. Can't wait for the gmen to put them in their place again this sunday.

 

It sure as hell seems that way.I don't doubt it. Goodell has his favorites!!

 

When was the last time Brady and Co. were found to be cheating? If it was before this season, how do you explain them playing in the Super Bowl?

Give some credit where credit is due. That "overrated hack" will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer, guaranteed.

 

I agree totally. Brady is good,but he's a cheater along with his cheater Coach.Hope the G-Men stomp them into the ground.I hate those smug,cheating lowlifes.Since 2000 all the way to when they got busted,Every major win SHOULD have a axterisk along side of it. They cheated and got away with it!!

 

As Micheal Corleone once said : Never hate your enemies, it only clouds your judgement.

I'm reading a lot of clouded judgement in this thread.

 

So what does an askterisk do? Nothing. A win is a win is a win.

Should they have an asterisk next to the Steelers' win in Super Bowl 40 since Leavy said that he screwed up a few calls?

 

As far as Manning being overrated... I think this year pretty much proved how valuable he is. No way the Colts would have won just one game with him under center.

 

Agreed, I have no idea how anyone can say Manning is overrated.

 

peyton manning and tom brady are two of the best quarterbacks to ever play professional football.

you can spin it any way you want, but to make an argument against it only makes you look like a buffoon.

"the fragrance of the rose lingers on the hand that casts it." - shakespeare
(it works the other way too)

 

I agree Peyton and Tom are way overrated.....I'd take big Ben any day over them two

 

Both great quarterbacks. Anything else is just fluff.

 

I completely agree that Peyton and Brady deserve to be 1st ballot HOFers. What I do hate though is the repulsive ball sucking done by the media placing these guys as the greatest of all time. People have to understand the context of the times and that they never had to play in a league where guys like Mel Blount would completely blow a WR off his route.

That is why I still place guys like Elway, Marino, and Montana on the same plane or even above those guys. And maybe we still need to give due to Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Otto Graham, Dan Fouts, and Sammy Baugh.

The other thing is while everyone loves Peyton and Brady, they basically give no love to the outstanding offensive line play they have. I swear Brady could eat a sack lunch half the time he throws the ball. I know Brady deserves some credit for this because he calls the right play to get the defense he wants....but come on, to have the time he has on the majority of his passes has to be due to outstanding line play.

 

So the media rides their sacks. Who cares? Every QB has an o-line, RBs, WRs, play callers, coaches, trainers and the list goes on. All of those people contribute to their success but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be given credit.

How about Ben? His early success was with a smothering defense and a pounding running game. IMHO that doesn't take anything away from him.

 

I think Brady has lost some of his skills as he has gotten older and Payton is nearing or at the end but to me they are both Hall of Fame caliber QB'S and two of the best ever. Just my opinion.

 

Just stumble upon this on NFL.com figured id post it since it's Manning related
http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/01/30/com...P11_content_stream&module=HP11_headline_stack

This stuck out to me the most in the article, “It was garbage without Peyton,” Irvin said. “… Peyton is beyond talented. He’s gifted. And gifted people, we mark our lives by them. We mark our lives by the gifted.”
I'm glad someone finally had the balls to come out and say it like that. Indy in trouble without Manning.
I agree with Tomlin_Era i always thought Manning seemed like a very down to earth good guy. I hope he gets a chance to throttle the Colts if they let him go.

 

The difference is Ben doesn't get near the accolades as we refer to those early years as Ben being a "game manager." I don't think Ben is in Brady's or Manning's class anyway. But the reason why I don't think your comparison makes sense is not every QB does have a good O Line, receivers, etc. Ben certainly has had a sub par line, I think you could argue that Romo even put up some pretty impressive numbers considering the challenges of his O Line this year. The point being is Manning and Brady have had some unbelievable line play over the years and those lines help them achieve some gaudy numbers. Throw into that the Patriots tendency to never let off the gas and the passing yards, QB rating can easily get into the stratosphere. I just think the massive focus on fantasy stats has skewed the glorification of QB play and though yes I do think Brady is a HOFer and a winner, I am not going to get too impressed with his 7 yard slant pattern passes to Wes Welker who turns it into a 25 yard gain - which happens often.

 

I don't like "ranking" players across positions and across eras. The NFL network's "Top 100 Players of All Time" was an exercise in futility and stupidity. You simply cannot compare the QB play of the 70s and much of the 80s to today. You just can't. Today, QBs have plays on the wristbands and headsets in their helmets. And the do benefit from rules that overprotect them.

I believe Peyton Manning is the real deal. I don't care about his playoff record. Football games are won and lost by teams, not individuals, and he never exactly benefited from great defenses. What's impressive about Peyton is the way he calls a game pretty much on his own--he's a throwback.

I don't have as much respect for Brady, and it's mostly because the man has no balls and benefits from superb line play.

Here are some numbers that pretty much illustrate how much of a wuss Brady is in big games:

Prior to 2011, Brady had thrown 28 career TDs in the post-season. Just five of them are longer than 10 yards. He averages 10.75 yds per TD pass. In Super Bowls, he has 7 career TDs in five games, not one of them longer than 8 yards. He averages a pathetic 4.4 yds per TD pass in Super Bowls. In 18 post-season games (prior to 2011), Brady has a YPA of 6.75. In Super Bowls his YPA is 6.41.

Let's compare these numbers to other QBs with at least three rings:

Aikman: Post-season Yds per TD pass: 17.1 ... Super Bowl Yds per TD pass: 21.6...Post-season YPA: 7.67... Super Bowl YPA: 8.61
Montana: Post-season Yds per TD pass: 20.56...Super Bowl Yds per TD Pass: 20.0...Post-season YPA: 7.86...Super Bowl YPA: 9.36
Bradshaw: Post-Season Yds per TD pass: 27.1...Super Bowl Yds per TD Pass: 35.88 ... Post-season YPA: 8.41...Super Bowl YPA: 11.09

I haven't even dived into yards per completion which would push Brady's #'s even further downward. Now, of course, I have no way of knowing how many yards each QB has had attributed to his stats due to yards after the catch. But even anecdotal evidence suggests this pads Brady's already paltry numbers.

Now, again, I do not like comparing players across era, but it is odd that in a more passer-friendly league, Brady can't outperform Bradshaw or Montana in these categories.

Conclusion: Brady is not a big-play QB because he is low-risk, low-reward.

To me, to be the best or considered among the best, you also need big-play capability, and Brady doesn't have this. Never has.

 

i fail to see the value in the 'yards per td' stat. why is a long td pass more valuable than a short one?

not for nothing, each of the other three qb's you mentioned played with at least one hall of fame wr AND bradshaw and aikman also had a hall of fame rb at their disposal.

for no other reason than just playing devil's advocate (i hate brady with a passion but think he's a great qb), i'd be remiss in failing to point out that brady's crop of receivers were mediocre at best in his three super bowl wins (givens, branch, t brown, etc) and had zero running game as well.

 

We all know a win is a win.What are you saying? The Steelers got cheated out of 2
AFC Championships because they cheated! How can anyone give them credit?
They won but..... As for SB40,The Steelers NEVER cheated.Every losing team or
their fans cry over calls/non -calls.It's not the same.Huge difference buddy.