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our Defensive Line too focus on pass rush?

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by francobettis, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. francobettis

    francobettis Well-Known Member

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    One the thing when Keith Butler became the DC, he wanted his DLs to be rushing the passer more often. And Cam Heyward has 10 sacks this season, most by a DL since Keith Willis. Back when our DL dominated stopping the run, most sack they had were about 7 or 6. Have our DL lost the edge in stopping the run because they are so focused on getting to the QB? Heyward, Tuitt, and Hargrave seem like a great front but opposing RBs have had big runs over and over this season. I think our DLs are not taking out the blockers and allowing them to get to our LBs. I wish we could see those days again.
     
  2. strummerfan

    strummerfan Well-Known Member

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    Part of it is using our defensive lineman more as pass rushers, but that isn’t the whole story by any stretch of the imagination. We have always had problems with zone runs. It’s just the nature of the beast. You can go back to 20 years and they’ve always given us problems.

    With that being said the biggest problem we’ve had against the run is missed tackles. Shazier was a man possessed this year, but he also missed 28 tackles in 11 games. Obviously not all of those were running plays, but it adds up. Davis missed another 24 or 26 tackles. To me missed tackles has been the biggest problem for this team.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  3. francobettis

    francobettis Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree that tackling has been a big issue, but there has been many cases where there were big holes for the opposing runners. Totally out position.
    Bears and ravens games were examlpes
     
  4. JAD

    JAD Well-Known Member

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    There is some truth to both, the linemen do focus on pass rushing more, which makes good rushing holes, and missed tackles by all creates good, long, rushes against us.
     
  5. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    the run defense makes me cringe. Long are the days of multiple TFL and stifling walls in run defense. That smith-Hampton-kiesel line was unstoppable
     
  6. BadwordLebeau

    BadwordLebeau Well-Known Member

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    The best thing about Cam’s 10 sacks is it’s made Keith Willis relevant again. A forgotten man stuck on some bad Steeler teams. A Steeler through and through. Now to get Bryan Hinkle back in the conversation
     
  7. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    So, I agree with missed tackles being a big culprit, and I'd add in over pursuit and lack of gap discipline, mostly by the second level defenders as well (i.e. the same guys missing the tackles are also getting out of position and allowing big plays). However, our D-line scheme is also a reason. We used to play a base 3-4 defense with a zero-technique (nose) and two 5-techniques (ends), and all 3 guys played two-gap control instead of penetrating. That would result in an absence of clean running lanes. Now we generally use a hybrid 1/2 gap front, and our OLB at the side of play flow has two-gap responsibility while the ends penetrate. Neither of our OLBs is particularly good at engaging a blocker straight on to control 2 gaps, or at drawing double teams in the run game. That's also a part of the reason why opponents have had success running outside zone against us. In today's NFL, I don't think it's necessary to have a dominant run defense like our old two-gap front used to produce. It just needs to be a good run defense, and I think we'd be a good run defense with better discipline and tackling in the run game by our ILBs and DBs.
     
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  8. MadtownDruankard

    MadtownDruankard Well-Known Member

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    I watch us in run defense and I see 2 HUGE problems.

    #1 Hargrave (and everyone we have in the middle) gets pushed backwards or turned away from the runner with regularity.

    #2 Our LB's over commit. They don't read well. They get suckered into the wrong gaps all of the time OR they hesitate and get eaten up by blockers because our NT can't clog the middle.



    When either or both of these things happen on any given run play the defense fails. If Hargrave gets blocked, then the ILB's will have blockers in their face. SO what do they do? They jump the gaps too early and take them selves out of plays or just get blocked. It turns our run stopping into a guessing game for our LB's and DE's. Hargrave does fine on passing situations but O-lineman with good technique use his size and motor against him and dominate the LOS. A good d-line has always been crucial to our defense. Add in the fact that our safeties suck so we can't expect them to cover up these weaknesses up front. The jags and Bears exploited these issues perfectly. It looks like we were able to make some adjustments from those 2 losses but it's still clearly a problem. we have a leaky damn that will break against good O-lines. As it is right now I think our only chance to win in the playoffs is by lighting up the scoreboard.
     
  9. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Pressure is the key to forcing qb's to make bad plays. Like every body says it's piss poor tackling

    that is the culprit here, not linemen getting after it.
     
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  10. bigbenhotness

    bigbenhotness Well-Known Member

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    Being last in missed tackles makes anyone look bad
     
  11. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    This. And Id rather have a strong pass rush then a strong run defense if I had to choose. They are ranked 13th against the run. Im fine with that.
     
  12. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    :hmm:



    Could have sworn I stated something eerily similar multiple times during my tenure here about the evolution of the defense....


    ... oh wait...
     
  13. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    Yep.


    Personnel weaknesses are now the new normal. Given the rise of the slot receiver and continued evolution of the tight end, old schematics like the Okie defense just do not cut it as much anymore; seldom if anything.


    Hybrid defenses are the solution; hybrid defense players like Kam Chancellor and Ryan Shazier being priceless in terms of value.
     
  14. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Well, it’s not that complicated...
     
  15. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    That was intended to be humorous. :smiley1:


    I do not believe you umderstood where I was coming at. :drinks:
     
  16. defva

    defva Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I totally agree
     
  17. steelers5859

    steelers5859 Well-Known Member

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    I think Keith Butler changed the DL approach because he knew he did not have the OLBs to be primary pass rushers. Culpable with the fact the CBs aren't stellar and the need for those OLBs to drop back, he needs the DL to be more than space eaters.
     
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