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Official Fire Mike Tomlin thread.

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by 86WardsWay, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    You keep doing that. No one is claiming he makes all decisions, no QB decides what coaches get hired and fired. Firing Arians came straight from the top, that was all Rooney. No one is claiming Ben runs the franchise.
     
  2. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    And ARII is the one who has mentioned before drafts that he wants a running game.

    https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...nny-snell-jaylen-samuels/stories/202001160155

    “I would like to see us be a team that can be more consistent running the football,” Rooney said. “I think that has to be a part of the game.”

    “I think we’ve seen in these playoffs that you can run the ball and be successful, no question about it,” Rooney said. “On the other hand, there are teams that are passing the ball pretty well, too, so I’m not going to jump to too many conclusions about what we’re seeing in these playoffs. (But) it’s an important component, I think, in terms of being able to play at the level we want to play at in a place like Pittsburgh.”

    ...

    MT has always claimed he fired Arians.

    "I thought that it was time for change," Tomlin said in March 2012, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. "We're moving into a situation here where we have an opportunity to grow and develop some young talent offensively. It's awesome to have an opportunity to maybe have the division of some common opponents -- people who are comfortable with how you play football -- get uncomfortable. That's what's going to happen to us this year. We're excited about that.


    "We did contact the Steelers, and we asked them if they had a comment on this," she said. "And they said, 'Look, this is ancient history for us. [Coach] Mike [Tomlin] has already talked about this.' But [they] made it clear that this was Mike Tomlin's decision, to fire Bruce Arians."

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...de-decision-to-fire-still-upset-bruce-arians/

    ...

    How can you put it on Ben when the OC he wanted was top 10 in rushing attempts 3/5 seasons with him?

    How can you not put it on Tomlin who has been picking his coordinators since 2012 and his progressively abandoned the run as Ben is on his way out, has no leverage to leave for another team etc.?

    If prime Ben in 2014 says "My way or the highway" the Steelers might listen but not 38 year old Ben on his last contract with no chance to go elsewhere. And definitely not Rudolph.

    Why did the rushing offense get worse without Ben in 2019 if the reason the Steelers pass so much is Ben?
     
  3. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Bell got injured in the AFCCG, if the team falls behind of course they're going to start throwing the ball.
     
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  4. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    And Ben had 6 turnovers in those losses to Mayfield, and Bortles, but continue to just blame the defense :facepalm:.
     
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  5. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    You can disagree with my posts all you want, but your narrative is BS.
     
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  6. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I remember it when it was all unfolding, Tomlin told BA his job was safe, Rooney overruled that because as you pointed out, he wanted the ground game to be the focus. He issued that same mantra previously to that season and BA ignored it. Tomlin is not going to admit that he was over ruled, he’s playing good soldier. This has been verified by the beat writers.

    All franchise QBs have a large input into what the offense does, don’t know why you are fighting this. Ben and BA were very close to each other and saw eye to eye had the same philosophies. Fichtner was Bens buddy and yes man. Haley was brought in to coral Ben and keep him from taking so much punishment. Didn’t do whatever Ben wanted and Ben threatened retirement and made the Steelers choose between him and Haley.

    This is all pretty common knowledge right down to who was responsible for BA “retiring”.
     
  7. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Jags and Browns had 7 TD drives of over 60 yards. I don't blame those on Roethlisberger. :shrug:

    I agree Ben is turnover prone. It's probably a mistake to have him throw 58 or 68 times in a playoff game. :shrug:
     
  8. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    I don't care, it's deflating for the defense if the offense can't stay on the field, those turnovers led to the team being in a hole in the first half in both games.
     
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  9. burghfan58

    burghfan58 Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe this thread is still active.
     
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  10. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Rooney does not want the ground game to be the focus- more like a consideration.

    Why didn't Tomlin quit? A Super Bowl winning head coach who cannot choose his own staff is a massive insult. Especially one year after going to the Super Bowl.

    None of the decisions you just listed were made by Ben. The Steelers have consistently made decisions Ben does not want made.

    2019 wasn't enough evidence for you. I guess next year it will also be Ben's fault there isn't an effective run game. :shrug:
     
  11. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I have 2 agree with both of You. It's deflating for a defense 2 be on the field a lot, but no excuse 2 give up all those same drives that they gave up on both the Browns, and Jag games. Can You imagine if our past teams said.... well you are only on the field a certain amount of time, or only scored a certain amount of points. I remember many a Steelers team when if You could score 17 points....that was an automatic Win most of the times.
    Almost everyone that has posted in this thread has certain things that are correct, but everyone is more worried about being right. Come on. This is My escape place. I really enjoy coming here. Can We not be so petty. Go Steelers!!!!!!!
     
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  12. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    Why? Alex Smith went 1-4 with KC in the playoffs. That is the only starting QB the Steelers have beaten in the playoffs in the last 11 seasons. There are going to be more of these threads not fewer over the next few years. A lot of Steelers fans who are a bit slower are going to start saying the things other have been saying for 10 years :shrug:
     
  13. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    That's fair. This isn't a thread for escaping though more like venting. :smiley1:
     
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  14. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call it gish gallop per se, but whatever. Your 'examples' just aren't IMO, strong supporters of your argument at times. I just called it shotgunning because some of your stat/reason bursts aren't directly related or conclusive to the point you're trying to make. This is fine to form an opinion, but you tend to act like yours are closer to fact to the extent that you then engage in arguing against anyone expressing their own view (you've made over 200 posts in the past three days) with follow-ups that are often, like here, mostly re-iterations of what you've already presented. I don't find your multiple examples to be 'overwhelming' - many here provide the same in theirs - but, with respect, the repetitive postings can border on excessive and become annoying when trying to read others' points of view as well.

    As for the rest of your post, I didn't address the Ben's best friends angle because IMO it's conjecture and doesn't have much to do with the style of offense Ben would prefer to run. (Starks, btw, was not cut for Scott. Scott was a journeyman brought in as a backup in 2010 and gone after 2011. Starks was the starting LT through 2012, and was on the team in 2013 but succeeded by Beachum at LT.) Your stats with Schottenheimer/Brees are fine, but also ignore the shift the league itself was going through on offense strategy in the late '90s/early '00s, largely triggered by the 3-4 blitzing scheme used by teams like the Steelers and Ravens, in addition to some pass-friendly rule changes. It lead to teams running more spread offenses to try breaking up the middle of the field and creating seams behind the defensive edge. This didn't rule the running game dead, just part of the evolution offenses made.

    As for my thoughts on what Cowher would have done, you need to re-read what I wrote. Your interpretation isn't even close to what I said. It's another example of your arguments firing off center. And I've posted previously (in other another thread) that the organization ignoring the offensive line, especially over the last five years, was a mistake.
     
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  15. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I don't care about your thoughts on what Cowher might have done because of league trends to be honest. Bill Belichick hasn't followed those league trends and had arguably the best QB ever. NE has been top 10 in rushing almost every year.

    Where a coach ranks is always relative to other coaches anyways. If the whole league shifts to more passing some coaches like Kyle Shanahan, Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel et al. will consistently rank near the top of the league relative to other coaches.

    I'm not going to reject strong evidence in a body of work and instead hypothesize that Bill Cowher might have magically altered his entire persona to become Mike Martz.

    ...

    Article on Max Starks being signed in October after the Steelers had cut him in July to start Jonathon Scott:

    https://www.deseret.com/2011/10/5/20220869/steelers-re-sign-veteran-ol-max-starks

    "It took a little while but we got him back and I'm happy about it," Roethlisberger said.
     
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  16. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    How would I know, ask Tomlin. While you’re at it, ask him why he didn’t bring his own staff when he was hired. According to you he should have turned down a great opportunity because his boss told him he needed to keep the DC in place. You really think other owners don’t influence these types of decisions if they want to? Ever hear of Jerry Jones?

    Thats your problem, you look at this as its “blaming Ben”, you think franchises QB’s have no say in the offense they run and apparently you missed the whole Haley saga. Ben had nothing to do with his firing, no of course not. Ben is a rookie with no pull whatsoever. The beat writers that cover the team all have it wrong.
     
  17. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I have a low opinion of sports journalists, and journalists in general. Nightcrawler is one of my favorite movies.

    I know for certain one million percent that Ben had nothing to do with Arians firing- he got fired though didn't he? Sorry, that's a conspiracy Arians retired then un-retired. ;)

    I respect your opinion. I look forward to your posts. We aren't going to agree on this. I hope I'm wrong and we have a running game next year that forces me to change my opinion.
     
  18. jeh1856

    jeh1856 That was my bed

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    we have a new zombie
     
  19. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Lol. Yeah, the article that specifically notes Starks was cut in the 2010 offseason because of cost and injuries sure proves your point about how they cut him just for Jonathan Scott and to stick it to Ben. And your comments on coaches is further spiraling off on tangential conjecture.

    You also apparently need to re-read what I wrote about Cowher for a third time. It certainly was not all about what he might have done because of league trends, to be honest.
     
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  20. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    I never said the Steelers were "trying to stick it to Ben." I said that Tomlin/Colbert/ARII make decisions that he hates. Don't you agree?
     
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  21. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    That bit in bold is an excuse to just make **** up rather when you don't like the facts.
     
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  22. FosterMorris

    FosterMorris Well-Known Member

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    The irony of this statement is that the media reports back my version up.

    It was Tomlin who made the public declaration that Arians had retired.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...s-offensive-coordinator-bruce-arians-retires/

    The only thing backed up by media Blast just said is that Tomlin said to Arians face that he wanted him to stay.

    ARII's side was that it didn't matter who wanted Arians gone, and Tomlin will hire the new OC.

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-ii-on-bruce-arians-it-was-time-for-a-change/

    ...

    Tomlin literally read a statement to the media that said Arians was retiring and he was looking for a new OC.

    Show me the media report that ARII forced Arians out against Tomlin protesting. I am not aware of one.

    All of the theory that Tomlin wanted to keep Arians is based on what Tomlin had personally told Arians. This means very little especially when we know how Ben feels about Arians. This is the entirety of Blast Furnace's claim that Arians was forced out by ARII. That isn't much and it isn't supported by media.

    I get that you don't like me but I'm not wrong here.

    ...

    Why doesn't it make sense that Tomlin might have been threatened by the close relationship of Ben and Bruce? And that the offense was underperforming finishing 12th-20th in the NFL?

    I was relieved Tomlin moved on from Arians personally. In hindsight Arians is a good coach. I'm not criticizing Tomlin's decision just feel that he was a culprit in that decision not a hostage to it.

    ...

    Arians says he doesn't know why he was forced out or by whom but you guys do?
     
  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    No, you’re still wrong ;)

    KREMER: “So you were eight years in Pittsburgh. Three Super Bowl appearances, two titles. Contract's up. Head coach Mike Tomlin calls you in the office. What happened?”

    ARIANS: “He said, ‘I'll get you your bread.’ And I said, ‘Well, I'm heading to the lake. Just gimme a call."

    KREMER: “And what happened?”

    ARIANS: “I got a call on Monday and (he) said, ‘I can't get you the money.’ I said, ‘OK.’ He said, ‘No, I can't get you a contract.’ I said, ‘Are you firing me?’ He said, ‘No…’ ‘Well… it's just a matter of words, Mike. OK. If I don't have a contract, I'm fired.’ And he said, ‘I'm going to fly down and talk.’ (I) said, ‘Why waste the money and the time?’ And so that was it. Walked upstairs and told my wife. And I've never seen her cry. And she cried.”

    https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...mlin-hbo-interview/1dqii9u77nfxq1ouynj8qecdmz
     
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  24. mcam

    mcam Well-Known Member

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    I think Tomlin will be appreciated in the Burgh when his time is up. I don't think it is yet and hope it isn't as I do think he has proven to be one of the top coaches.

    If I have one criticism of Tomlin, is I'd love to see him light a fire under some of these guy's as$es. I'd like to see him get fired up or angry even. Get the Devin Bushes of the world a little mad. Kindle a little fire.

    I think they need someone to stir up the pot sometimes. Bring out the dog in some of these players as I don't think talent is the issue.

    Kansas City will be a tough one. The Steelers have had trouble with athletic tight ends for years. The Steelers are going to have to play one of their most physical games. Ben and et all are going to have to score 24 + at least imo.
     
  25. S.T.D

    S.T.D Well-Known Member

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    I also Heard BAs wife talk about it ,and She said basically the same exact thing.
     

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