o-line

i figure i will start it's own thread and not highjack SBD's steelers draft thread anymore. sorry SBD.

i know we all want a guard to come in and start immediately. i get that, but for who? foster? he may have been our most consistant guard for the last 3 years. everytime he was called on he stepped in and did a decent job although maybe not perfect always. he did come from college as a tackle though, so he's learning. legursky is the backup center. hurt alot. again does a decent job but again not perfect by any means. essex can play any position on the line. he did a decent job at all of them and again not perfect. he seemed to pickup the center spot pretty well for a short time. that should get better with time.

with all that said,
1. we have to have a backup center. even moreso this year with pouncey coming off of surgery on his ankle. it may be fixed, but we just don't know how it will hold up under fire yet.
2. does this rule out foster, he's never played center. or does he come back as the right guard?
3. we will be with either essex or legursky since they are the backup center. do either start at guard to start the season?
4. do we draft one of these C/G types as our new guard? konz? snow? blake? brewster? jones? other?
5. this makes us have to either keep scott, or find a swing tackle as a backup. draft or FA?
6. essex could eleveate some of this with his position flexability, but will he be good enough to keep because of this?
7. we draft a guy that can play guard and LT/RT. there are a couple.
8. we only dress 7 linemen on gameday. we have to have a C/G backup and a LT/RT backup. who stays and who goes. which combo do we draft to fill the void? who do we dump?

if we draft a guard only guy, does that mean essex is our main backup?
legursky as the C/G backup?
do either start?
do we then draft a G/LT/RT type.
is there one able to start day 1.

something i just read and seems very relavant to this thread. legursky had shoulder surgery in jan.. it's not a given that he will be ready for the season. another twist in the mix.

 

Legursky is fine with me as the backup center/guard. I do not want him starting. If you get a starting LG to replace Kemo, you have your backup center back. Two birds.

I think Foster is a decent stop-gap. I want to keep him. He improved a lot from 2010, so I'm not in such a rush to replace him. I still want to draft more than one lineman for depth/competing. I'm not coming after Foster with pitchforks, but he should have to earn his spot and not just have it handed to him like Pouncey, Gilbert and Colon (well, Colon will still have to earn it by being healthy). If Foster is outplayed by someone and loses his starting role, I'm okay with him as a backup at RG, LG, and even RT for emergency use. We still need a true backup OT that can play both sides, and with Legursky that makes three backup linemen, but I've always wanted to keep 8 OL active. We are too injury prone to roll with 7. Pouncey goes down, you have Legursky. A guard goes down, you have a choice between Legursky and Foster. Tackle goes down, use the new guy we don't have yet, or Foster if it's the right side and the new guy is green.

I see two needs for us on the OL that we MUST address this offseason: #1 starting LG, #2 swing OT. I would take a healthy and in-shape Starks for the OT job for the vet minimum, but that's three conditions that have to be met, and two outa three ain't good enough. I don't see all three happening, so I think he's likely out. Essex has experience at all 5 spots, but is simply not good enough to backup OT, and that's the position we need. Not even in shape. He's just not good enough and never will be. Scott? Maybe for the right side, but we need someone who can play both. He has proven he can't play the left side in the NFL. So neither spot, starting LG or backup OT, is on the roster. Gotta get 'em both now. I think the LG should come in the draft. The backup OT can come later in the draft, or in FA for cheap.

Another way to go is drafting a legitimate starting-caliber LT, moving Gilbert to LG. That's essentially the same thing as drafting both positions of need in one, because if Gilbert goes down a guard comes in, and if the LT goes down, Gilbert slides out and the guard comes in. Of course, drafting a starting-caliber LT that can play week 1 is going to be much harder -- maybe impossible -- than drafting a guard that can start week 1. But if we could get it done, it would go a long way to being able to dress only 7 and still having decent backups.

The other spot we could improve is starting RG, but I'm willing to give Foster another year there and see if he looks like he can do it long-term. Too many holes to fill this year to hope for improving this spot as well.

As for WHO we get, I was really hoping for DeCastro, and willing to trade a 3rd to get into the teens and nab him. Pouncey and Iupati were both the most highly touted interior linemen in recent memory and went at #17 and #18, so I thought it was very possible. After his combine though, he appears to be set to go in the early teens. If he slides a little it could still happen, but I'm no longer holding out hope. I hate Zietler in the first. I feel better about Konz, but he's a guy who not only put up a measley 18 reps (not that important, but a red flag nonetheless), but will also be changing positions. Not sold. I love both of these guys as second rounders, but I don't see them making it that far. Plus I'm feeling better and better about Hightower, so I'm looking for a different OG in round 2. Hopefully there will be a good guy there and we won't have to wait any longer.

 

we need a left tackle and a left guard , pouncey /leg will hold the center ,colon should play rg , and gilbert right tackle

 

When peyton Manning signs with STEELERS WEST, A deal will be
made for Mike Wallace and we will finally get the man we need in Decastro.
He and Pouncey will solve alot of problems for this OL. Ben needs help
and this will help him a ton.

 

Colon is never going to play RG.

I think that's becoming a regular on the list of things like block numbers and cheerleaders. I don't know how the notion started, but it's never going to happen.

 

Well, the Oline is somewhat of a mess this offseason. Starks getting hurt really helps add to that mix. If we assume we are going to carry 10 Olineman, the easiest way to look at the line is on a depth chart.

LT - Gilbert, ???

LG - ???, ???

C - Pouncey, Legursky

RG - Foster, ???

RT - Colon, Scott

That leaves us 4 openings, plus competition for the RT backup spot. RG could be a place of competition for the starter, but I expect Foster to stay even if it is just for the backup spot.

Who do we have as options?

Trai Essex
John Malecki
Chris Scott
Trevis Turner

Well, that isn't much to work with. If I am Chris Scott or even John Scott, I am pretty ecstatic right now. Even if we draft 2 guys, you are having to beat out John Malecki and Trevis Turner for your roster spot. We are going to need to find some help on the Oline and we may need to find a cheap UFA and multiple UDFAs in order to give us a 10 deep Oline. We could only keep 9, but you never know.

The Steelers will do what they do every year...go into the draft picking the best player available and go with the best option to fill in at places they couldn't get to in the draft. If we don't get a starting LG, we will start Legursky or maybe C. Scott. If we don't get an ILB, we will start Foote. That is just the way we are. This draft is deep with Guards, so maybe we get more than 1.

 

Colon was a guard at college that's why.
The downside is he was probably a big guard for the small school he came from, but I don't think he is stout enough to be a NFL guard, but who knows?

He could probably pull as a guard a hell of a lot better than Ramon Foster...that is Fosters only major flaw I see...he's slow. Foster holds his ground well though. You can't tell me Colon can be any worse than Essex at guard either?

I think Ramon Foster and Essex have taken some snaps at center in preseason, but it never goes anywhere because they already have 2 centers on the roster. If they needed to make a tough decision and get rid of Legursk it is not the end of the world.

Honestly I was surprised they cut Kemo, yeah his play has declined, but this leaves them VERY thin at guard. They need to sign a veteran before the draft IMO. If not I can foresee them resigning Kemo at a later date. Kemo could bounce back, he was playing all year on a bum knee that needed surgery. If he is getting the surgery maybe we will see a return to for and at a cheaper price for us?

 

They just signed Fitzy to an 8 year $120m contract last year and Kolb to a 5 year $63m contract. Decastro would be great but no way do they shell out two big contracts AGAIN to a WR/QB in the following year.

 

quote]
i totally agree that we will see a few udfa guards and a tackle or two in camp. guard is deep this year and there are some good players after this draft is over. i'm not totally down on malecki, if you watched him at center last preseason, he held his ground very well and had some push in the run game. chris scott was also a good tackle at tenn. they have been trying to make him a guard here. i'd like to see him at tackle in camp, if not then get rid of him. if essex would lose the gut and stay in shape, he didn't play bad at center last year as a backup. someone better step up thats for sure.

 

The green spots can also be filled by Legursky. I don't think he's so great at guard, but he has experience and is okay as a backup. They like him enough at backup center, and we're not going to keep someone who is JUST a backup center. I'm not thrilled with him as a backup, but it's not a spot I demand be fixed right now. How many backup guards are that good, anyway?

The red spots are real openings. If that's all Scott can do (whether you're talking about Jon or Chris), he should be gone. No one on the OL backs up only one spot. Especially if it's RT. We need a starting OG and a backup swing OT. J Scott and Essex cannot hang at OT. C Scott looked bad last preseason, so he'd need a huge turnaround. We need to add two good linemen.

 

the biggest concern with legs is the shoulder surgery. he may not even be able to start camp. i do think they can do better than him. i wouldn't mind them getting 3 newbies. i would like snow from texas late or as a udfa. he can play G. and C. he may make a nice backup. that would leave us young up front but with better upside. zeitler,datko,snow i have in my mock. foster can backup RT if needed in a pinch. datko would be much higher if not for the shoulder question. he may be a steal in the 4th or 5th. he did lift at his pro day. by camp he should be back to playing shape and healed. zeitler is so close to the 1st round , pulling the trigger on him if decastro is out of reach would be the best move we could make.

 

When it comes to C. Scott, a turnaround isn't completely out of the realm of possibility IMO. First, they did consider him a potential starter at G during the preseason last year. In fact, he got the first start at G in the preseason. He didn't look great, but there must have been something the coaches saw that made them think he could potentially be a starter. Second, this will be his 3rd preseason, but his 1st preseason he completely missed. He spent the entire year on the practice squad last year....it wouldn't surprise me if he at least gets a shot at a backup G spot this year.

The reason you see Legursky listed where he was is not that he cannot be the backup G, especially on game days, but the reality is his primary role is backup center and the team will carry at least 9 Olineman. Placing him at center shows that we don't need a backup for that particular spot. J. Scott is listed as a RT, but ideally we find a guy who can swing to the LT spot as well. Right now, we don't have that guy.

I have no idea any more what the plan is, but the FO obviously is positioning itself exactly how it does every year, not NEEDING to take any position necessarily. They would start the year this way if they have to: Gilbert/Legs/Pouncey/Foster/Colon. At NT, they promised Hampton a roster spot, so the question is do they bring in competition for McLendon. If they can't through the draft, they will sign a UDFA and hope competition exists there. Foote while not ideal for the ILB spot will start if they can't get an ILB. Tolbert would be brought in so they don't NEED a RB. Cotchery and Wallace, who will eventually sign, are there for WR. At the moment they don't NEED to draft any one particular position. There are plenty of spots that can get improvements, but they have bodies to fill in where they need them that they can win with.

 

i'm not so sure on these two quite yet. the jets say they want cotchery back. he's nowhere near set in stone. wallace is also up in the air. we only have two for sure. brown and sanders. not a good plan to start the season as of right now at that spot.

 

we will draft adams in rd 1 and brooks in rd 3

 

i'm kinda leaning towards zeitler in rd.1 and schwartz in rd.2. they may be a nice mix for us.

 

I'm with you, mac-D. While the names may be different, I think the Steelers go OL back-to-back this draft, either rounds 1 & 2 or rounds 2 & 3.

 

I'm with you, mac-D. While the names may be different, I think the Steelers go OL back-to-back this draft, either rounds 1 & 2 or rounds 2 & 3.[/quote:3roi22e2]

i'd like some udfa guys brought in too, or i wouldn't be against one in the 7th. snow from texas for instance. i think we would forget about legs real quick. i love legursky, but we can do better. snow has played both positions and would be a better backup. i relly feel strong about pulling the trigger on zeitler in the 1st. he's the best true guard if decastro is gone. we need one. if the go adams 1st i don't think we get him unless we give up picks and we need them this year. i wouldn't mind adams, but not at the expense of zeitler.

as far as schwartz, i think he'd be a good swing guy for us and i think he's underated this year. may the schwartz be with you. :-D

everyone says we can't fix the o-line in one year and that may be true, but we can make ours a whole lot better in this year. there are alot of good linemen in this draft and after.

 

I think the actual quote is, "you can fix everything in one year". We could easily take Oline guards in round #1 and #2 and have a VERY solid line in the upcoming year. Gilbert looks like he will be a fine starter. Pouncey we know about, if he can stay healthy. Colon, while I still think should be a guard, is a pretty solid RT. That leaves the guards as gaps. That could be remedied quickly.

Personally, I would love for us to take 2 top Olineman, a LT and a LG, it would give us:

Drafted LT/Drafted LG/Pouncey/Colon/Gilbert

That being said, I think it is easier if we draft 2 guards in the draft, and maybe a tackle at some point. Drafting them with the assumption that they are for depth, with the potential of them starting at some point. I think we NEED to go into the first game something like this:

Gilbert/Legs/Pouncey/Foster/Colon - Drafted LT, Drafted LG, Essex, J. Scott or UFA signing, Drafted RG all around for depth.

When it comes to other positions on offense, I think they can choose to ignore them if they want assuming we get our own UFAs resigned. On D, I would like to see an ILB and a Safety added. Ideally we could add a NT as well, but if Casey can be healthy come season start (big ?mark) I am okay with our Dline.

I could very easily see our draft going this way:

Round 1: ILB
Round 2: OG
Round 3: OT
Round 4: S
Round 5: NT
Round 6: OG
Round 7: BPA

Now to me, that is the positions that need to be drafted, order I could care less about, but those are things we need to look at.

 

Here is what I don't get. It is universally accepted that the Oline needs a major upgrade but to read this thread and the decastro thread you almost wouldn't know it. Everyone seems to be saying if we can't get this one guy then they should just wait because you can get a quality G or T in the later rounds. This has even played out in the fantasy draft. Call me dense but isn't that what has led to the current Oline situation? They wait because they don't want to reach for a guy but he ends up getting picked so they wait some more and end up drafting 6th and 7th round guards and tackles that everyone says can't play because of this philosophy of you can get quality players in the later rounds when that is a 50/50 prospect at best. I say go get the player you want and quit playing the lets wait and see if he falls to us in later rounds game. IF you are going to make it an area of focus than do it and quit being wishy-washy about it. They need to be aggressive to get some of these guys.

 

I don't think that is what I am trying to say at all, and I doubt many others are either. Here is my point:

1. We have many needs, you can't fix them all in one year. You get the BPA at your positions of need.

2. We are a defense first team. We are really young on offense, but the D is getting older.

3. The FO must balance the following question on draft day, round 1. If we have the best OG and the best ILB of the draft sitting on the board, who do they pick? Who do they not like the most Foote or Legursky? Which player can I potentially replace in round 2?

4. The FO must make choices like that all over the field, but not for only starters but for role playing depth.

 

i agree, i don't see a need to hurry and grab an ilb in the first round. there are some good lb'ers in this draft other then in the first. hightower and kuechly are not the only good lb'ers. i don't think they make as much impact on the team as a guard would on the offensive line this year. do we need one? yea, but it's not a must need that early. we have no idea that foote will be the starter. let's actually see if the guy we have in his 3rd year can do it. ivy looked pretty good last preseason too. good enough to keep around anyway. year 3 usually is the big jump year for players, this is slys year 3. it's also ivy's year 3 in the league. remember timmons as a 1st rounder didn't get the full starting gig until year 3. legursky is coming off shoulder surgery and he even says he hopes to be able to go by camp. we don't have a LG. legursky is a fill in,he did ok, but we had ok and it's not that good and not a truely good G. this is the year to do it.